Up to what Loa boat would you consider it practical to singlehand?

[westernman]

I really don’t think many of those are essential.

I agree a decent reliable Autopilot is essential.

Mid rope with loop is my preferred method but other methods possible.

The rest are possibly nice to have but definitely not essential.

I single hand our 11.7 metre boat without a thought but so what. We certainly don’t have a bow thruster or electric winches.

If your anchor is 75lbs or more, an electric windlass is a real relief.

Yes, I can pull it all up by hand. But it takes a while and is a faff.
And single handed, once the anchor is off the bottom, you need to run back and forth to keep the boat on station while you pull up the rest.

An electric windlass which can be operated from both the bow and the cockpit is highly desirable.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If your anchor is 75lbs or more, an electric windlass is a real relief.

Yes, I can pull it all up by hand. But it takes a while and is a faff.
And single handed, once the anchor is off the bottom, you need to run back and forth to keep the boat on station while you pull up the rest.

An electric windlass which can be operated from both the bow and the cockpit is highly desirable.

You’re quite right. And yes we have an electric windlass. (And a remote).

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Sailing a Southerly 46RS since 2012.
A difficult boat to bring alongside?
That's a "piece of string question"
The boat has a very narrow centre board (2.5tons) and a bow thruster. It also has twin rudders, and the prop' is quite shallow and close to flat section of the hull, but it is well forward.
That combination means the boat is very maneuverable. I can spin the boat in its own length, plus bit, by working the prop' walk and the bow thruster.
For example, It allows "parallel parking", port side too in a slot not much longer than the boat. Bring the boat bow first into the slot reasonably quickly, at an angle of about 30 degrees. As the bow comes along side the pontoon, a strong burst astern and moving the bow to starboard with the bow thruster.
The burst astern brings the stern to port and stops the boat. I use the bow thruster to keep the bow off the pontoon. The moment of the boat brings the boat along side. Hop ashore and secure the lines, which I've placed in strategic positions.
That works in most condions.
The problem comes when there's a strong wind blowing the boat off. I need to get the mooring lines on very quickly. The combination windage on the mast (23m) and the hull, with the weight of the boat means it can get out of control very quickly.
It really helps to have someone ashore to take the lines and get the midship line on immediately.
The summary is the boat is very manoverable.
But the lack of lateral restance means that it can move sideways in a blow very quickly, and the loads get beyond what a 78 year old can handle.
If I think a manover is marginal. I don't do it. I anchor or pick up a mooring bouy.

 

[benjenbav]

Sailing a Southerly 46RS since 2012.
A difficult boat to bring alongside?
That's a "piece of string question"
The boat has a very narrow centre board (2.5tons) and a bow thruster. It also has twin rudders, and the prop' is quite shallow and close to flat section of the hull, but it is well forward.
That combination means the boat is very maneuverable. I can spin the boat in its own length, plus bit, by working the prop' walk and the bow thruster.
For example, It allows "parallel parking", port side too in a slot not much longer than the boat. Bring the boat bow first into the slot reasonably quickly, at an angle of about 30 degrees. As the bow comes along side the pontoon, a strong burst astern and moving the bow to starboard with the bow thruster.
The burst astern brings the stern to port and stops the boat. I use the bow thruster to keep the bow off the pontoon. The moment of the boat brings the boat along side. Hop ashore and secure the lines, which I've placed in strategic positions.
That works in most condions.
The problem comes when there's a strong wind blowing the boat off. I need to get the mooring lines on very quickly. The combination windage on the mast (23m) and the hull, with the weight of the boat means it can get out of control very quickly.
It really helps to have someone ashore to take the lines and get the midship line on immediately.
The summary is the boat is very manoverable.
But the lack of lateral restance means that it can move sideways in a blow very quickly, and the loads get beyond what a 78 year old can handle.
If I think a manover is marginal. I don't do it. I anchor or pick up a mooring bouy.

If in reply to me; mine was intended to be a lighthearted observation on a reading of your previous post that you’d been sailing continuously since 2012 because it was difficult to bring the boat alongside.

I didn’t seriously think that that was remotely the case.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Sorry benjenbav, I didn't see the joke.
Perhaps it was too early in the morning for me to be fully awake.
But hopefully, people might see that you can develop techniques to control single-hand a relatively large boat safely.
I dare say that you'd need a different technique to handle a long keeled boat with a keel hung rudder, just as safely.

 

[geem]

Sailing a Southerly 46RS since 2012.
A difficult boat to bring alongside?
That's a "piece of string question"
The boat has a very narrow centre board (2.5tons) and a bow thruster. It also has twin rudders, and the prop' is quite shallow and close to flat section of the hull, but it is well forward.
That combination means the boat is very maneuverable. I can spin the boat in its own length, plus bit, by working the prop' walk and the bow thruster.
For example, It allows "parallel parking", port side too in a slot not much longer than the boat. Bring the boat bow first into the slot reasonably quickly, at an angle of about 30 degrees. As the bow comes along side the pontoon, a strong burst astern and moving the bow to starboard with the bow thruster.
The burst astern brings the stern to port and stops the boat. I use the bow thruster to keep the bow off the pontoon. The moment of the boat brings the boat along side. Hop ashore and secure the lines, which I've placed in strategic positions.
That works in most condions.
The problem comes when there's a strong wind blowing the boat off. I need to get the mooring lines on very quickly. The combination windage on the mast (23m) and the hull, with the weight of the boat means it can get out of control very quickly.
It really helps to have someone ashore to take the lines and get the midship line on immediately.
The summary is the boat is very manoverable.
But the lack of lateral restance means that it can move sideways in a blow very quickly, and the loads get beyond what a 78 year old can handle.
If I think a manover is marginal. I don't do it. I anchor or pick up a mooring bouy.

Some places we sail don't have the alternative of an anchorage. You have to go into a marina when bad weather is coming. How would you manage that scenario? When posting on this thread earlier, I was shot down in flames for suggesting that 37/38ft was the limit for singlehanded sailing, but i was considering entering a tight marina berth in strong winds, fast running currents, etc. I wasn't considering that you just don't do it when the weather is bad. That isn't handling the boat, it's avoiding handling the boat. I can very easily handle my 44 ft boat with no bow thruster is strong winds singlehanded, if I am just anchoring but I wouldn't enter a marina singlehanded in poor weather. It sounds like you don't either.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

In my first post, I said that I sail in NW Scotland. There are very few Marinas. If a storm blows through, you have to be able to look after yourself. You can't just hide in a marina.
I have ridden out storms on moorings but I need to be very sure that it's more than adequate and fully serviced.
In the area I cruise there are usually multiple bays, Loch, and other sheltered spots, accessible and within say 24hr sailing. Weather forecast normally give at least 24hr advance warning of an approaching storm.
In addition I prefer to be at anchor, where the boat can lie head to wind, on ground tackle I can trust.
I have ridden out storms in marinas. One I remember well, was ridden out in Pwllheli Marina, moored to a hammer head, broadside to the gale, recording a max of 54knots.
It was a very uncomfortable night pinned to the pontoon at about 20 deg of heel, with all fenders rigged over about a 4m length, around about midships.
The boat survived without damage.
I'd have preferred to be anchored.
As per my previous post. The maximum sized yacht you can handle depends on many factors, not least the area you intend to cruise in.

 

[geem]

In my first post, I said that I sail in NW Scotland. There are very few Marinas. If a storm blows through, you have to be able to look after yourself. You can't just hide in a marina.
I have ridden out storms on moorings but I need to be very sure that it's more than adequate and fully serviced.
In the area I cruise there are usually multiple bays, Loch, and other sheltered spots, accessible and within say 24hr sailing. Weather forecast normally give at least 24hr advance warning of an approaching storm.
In addition I prefer to be at anchor, where the boat can lie head to wind, on ground tackle I can trust.
I have ridden out storms in marinas. One I remember well, was ridden out in Pwllheli Marina, moored to a hammer head, broadside to the gale, recording a max of 54knots.
It was a very uncomfortable night pinned to the pontoon at about 20 deg of heel, with all fenders rigged over about a 4m length, around about midships.
The boat survived without damage.
I'd have preferred to be anchored.
As per my first previous post. The maximum sized yacht you can handle depends on many factors, not least the area you intend to cruise in.

I know Pwllheli marina well. That was our home port for a while and we were based in the marina with our current boat. It's a difficult marina with narrow fairways, a current running through the marina at 45° to the berths due to two rivers discharging into it. We have seen 80kts on our wind instrument whilst in the marina and over 100kts was registered on land based wind instrument when we had our previous boat there on the trots.
There is little shelter for anchoring as an alternative if the wind is from the East. We have sat out F8 off Abersoch at anchor and it was fine.
Arriving in the dark there in a F8 with stronger winds forecast, we have opted for the fuel dock for the night. Getting into our berth was next to impossible in those conditions

 

[Dutch01527]

I recently upgraded from a 33 foot 5 ton boat to a 41 foot 14 ton boat. I regularly sail and dock with my wife only onboard board who has a knee issue which means that she can not help. I have not found much difference in difficulty. I rarely use the bow thruster and usually use a midships line hooked over a cleat with the boat hook to dock, I am not sure why more people do not do this, it is a bit of boating magic as others have said before. The boat has electric winches, remote windlass with chain counter, a good autopilot and inmast furling which helps a lot. The autopilot is the only essential element of that list however in my opinion.

Main lesson was to take things really slow. A big boat has a lot of momentum. On the plus side a big heavy boat is more settled, it takes longer for the wind to catch it. Learning how to spring off the dock is essential. If anything goes wrong when sailing I heave to and have all the time and calm in the world, another underused bit of boat magic.

 

[Dutch01527]

Late to the party, as usual!
I've been sailing single handed most of my life.
I'm currently sailing a Southerly 46RS single handed.
I'm 78, weigh in at about 70kg, and far from being Mr Atlas. I've been sailing the Southerly since 2012.
My key to single handed sailing is where you sail. I'm my case NW Scotland, generally north of Mull, and much of the summer, north of Sky.
I generally day sail and anchor overnight. It's obviously much easier to anchor that to come along side. The boat has a windlass with a cockpit remote, which includes a chain counter. After lowering the sails using the autopilot, I remove the pin securing the anchor, approch my anchoring spot in the usual way. Try to hold station, using the engine and bow thruster, whilst I lower the anchor, to a little more than the water depth. Then back away paying out the chain, either drifting or using the engine. All done from the helm.
The anchor will usually set at a scope of 3:1.
I can feel that because of the deceleration and the bow dipping or swinging head to wind.
I then go to the bow and adjust the length of the rode (using the windlass control at the bow) and attach a nylon bridle as a snubber.
I rarely go to a marina, I don't really like them and they are few and far between in NW Scotland.
If I do it's often a mid day pitstop for fuel, water and food. A typical 3 to 4 week trip would have one marina visit.
I do go ashore by dinghy for a walk every day.
If there a lot of wind I won't entertain a berth with the wind blowing me off. The loads are much too high.
Although I have sailed down to lake Solent several times, I didn't enjoy it, too crowded, expensive and restricted. If the Solent was my only option, I'd sell up and take up gardening.

I agree completely, assuming that you have a good anchor and enough good chain. Same set up and process as you. My boat is based upriver in Dartmouth and in the height of the summer we leave the mooring and anchor just off the town if we are staying overnight. . Same in Salcombe. Cheap, peaceful and no one rafting against you. Water taxi or tender ashore. We prefer it to the pontoons.

 

[geem]

I agree completely, assuming that you have a good anchor and enough good chain. Same set up and process as you. My boat is based upriver in Dartmouth and in the height of the summer we leave the mooring and anchor just off the town if we are staying overnight. . Same in Salcombe. Cheap, peaceful and no one rafting against you. Water taxi or tender ashore. We prefer it to the pontoons.

The OP asked what was the length of boat for singlehanded sailing going in and out of marinas. Handling a bigger boat at at anchor and on and off a mooring is quite easy by comparison

 

[Dutch01527]

The OP asked what was the length of boat for singlehanded sailing going in and out of marinas. Handling a bigger boat at at anchor and on and off a mooring is quite easy by comparison

I had already replied to the OP’s original question. This was an additional reply to another post in the thread extending the scope of the virtual conversation a bit. I think that is appropriate and normal.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I was watching the Hallberg Rassy video for their 69, definitely set up for single handed sailing. To berth in marinas they have a remote joy stick controller that operates the throttle, forward, reverse, bow and stern thrusters. All sail control is push button, in mast and furling sails. It is a lovely boat, designed for singlehanded according to them i.e. family sailing where only one member of the family may be running the show. They state that it is actually safer than smaller boats.

I think its a great boat, but you decide.

 

[westernman]

I was watching the Hallberg Rassy video for their 69, definitely set up for single handed sailing. To berth in marinas they have a remote joy stick controller that operates the throttle, forward, reverse, bow and stern thrusters. All sail control is push button, in mast and furling sails. It is a lovely boat, designed for singlehanded according to them i.e. family sailing where only one member of the family may be running the show. They state that it is actually safer than smaller boats.

I think its a great boat, but you decide.

If you can afford one of those, you should also look to see what Amel offers (Accueil - AMEL)

 

[RunAgroundHard]

@westernman rather weirdly, for the second time recently, a post that has been quoted from myself, is attributed to another person, geem in this case, odd.

 

[potentillaCO32]

I was watching the Hallberg Rassy video for their 69, definitely set up for single handed sailing. To berth in marinas they have a remote joy stick controller that operates the throttle, forward, reverse, bow and stern thrusters. All sail control is push button, in mast and furling sails. It is a lovely boat, designed for singlehanded according to them i.e. family sailing where only one member of the family may be running the show. They state that it is actually safer than smaller boats.

I think its a great boat, but you decide.

They would say that. They and everyone else makes a lot more money selling bigger yachts.

It is safe until it gets to 7 years old and one of the push buttons stops working...

 

[RunAgroundHard]

They would say that. They and everyone else makes a lot more money selling bigger yachts.

It is safe until it gets to 7 years old and one of the push buttons stops working...

If you have the sort of cash to buy such a boat, likely it will be maintained. The boat clearly is designed for ease of use. However, your argument can be applied to all boats equally: a 35' is safe "until it gets to 7 years old and ..."; chose your failure mode.

 

[potentillaCO32]

If you have the sort of cash to buy such a boat, likely it will be maintained. The boat clearly is designed for ease of use. However, your argument can be applied to all boats equally: a 35' is safe "until it gets to 7 years old and ..."; chose your failure mode.

Not at all. As a single hander i choose simplicity wherever possible. I wouldn't have in mast furling, i wouldn't have push button everything, i would keep to a boat length where i could pull up the anchor by hand etc etc. I have a backup autopilot.
To go singlehanded in a boat where you are reliant on push button automation to enable singlehanded sailing is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I would have said around 38ft was comfortable to single-hand, but now I have a 44ft boat, I'll probably be more comfortable with it compared to my last one given a bit more practice. We normally sail as a crew of 2 but when it gets exciting, my shipmate disappears below while I take care of the boat.

My take is bigger is easier, might seem odd, but it stems from everything happening faster and harder on my last boat (36ft) ... it heeled more, it bounced around more, and it was more susceptible to sudden gusts than the current one. The boats I sailed in my youth (Kingfisher 20+ and an Albin Vega) were very exciting in a F5/F6 ... my current one needs an F8 before it gets exciting.

It's also harder and more tiring to work on a boat that is thrashing around, than it is on one that is more stable. If the sea state is such that a 14 tonne, 13m boat is being tossed around, then I certainly wouldn't want to be on a 6 tonne 10m one in the same conditions - the majority of injuries at sea are due to falling, slipping, or being clobbered by something thrashing around.

The other proviso is, if I don't feel comfortable with the conditions or the forecast, then I won't go out. The biggest problems with this approach are schedules and deadlines - so I'm sometimes forced out when I would otherwise stay put. Had it happen twice this year, both times having to head out into 30 knot plus winds with associated sea state. Surprised at how my fears were unfounded, was far less drama than I expected - had one of the best sails of the season with her bumbling along at 8-10 knots under a heavily reefed genoa.

 

[geem]

I would have said around 38ft was comfortable to single-hand, but now I have a 44ft boat, I'll probably be more comfortable with it compared to my last one given a bit more practice. We normally sail as a crew of 2 but when it gets exciting, my shipmate disappears below while I take care of the boat.

My take is bigger is easier, might seem odd, but it stems from everything happening faster and harder on my last boat (36ft) ... it heeled more, it bounced around more, and it was more susceptible to sudden gusts than the current one. The boats I sailed in my youth (Kingfisher 20+ and an Albin Vega) were very exciting in a F5/F6 ... my current one needs an F8 before it gets exciting.

It's also harder and more tiring to work on a boat that is thrashing around, than it is on one that is more stable. If the sea state is such that a 14 tonne, 13m boat is being tossed around, then I certainly wouldn't want to be on a 6 tonne 10m one in the same conditions - the majority of injuries at sea are due to falling, slipping, or being clobbered by something thrashing around.

The other proviso is, if I don't feel comfortable with the conditions or the forecast, then I won't go out. The biggest problems with this approach are schedules and deadlines - so I'm sometimes forced out when I would otherwise stay put. Had it happen twice this year, both times having to head out into 30 knot plus winds with associated sea state. Surprised at how my fears were unfounded, was far less drama than I expected - had one of the best sails of the season with her bumbling along at 8-10 knots under a heavily reefed genoa.

Agreed, until the bigger, heavier boat gets out of control. Then they are a big heavy battering ram. When everything works, they are a pleasure.
Things you don't want failing when manoeuvring are engines, steering and bow thrusters. Everything else is superficial (including a bow thruster for us as we don't have one)