Uninsured beyond Gibralter

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We hope to have the bottle and time to take our (small, old) boat beyond Gib sometime in the next few years, either into the Med or (and?) to the Canaries and beyond.

If the articles and letters in YM are to be believed we will be doing it uninsured.

Should we worry? Or should we simply be glad that being unable to go into marinas will make our cruise much cheaper?

What about the Panama Canal - I assume 3rd party is compulsory - can it be taken out at the time just for the transit? What other implications are there in the future for long distance low budget cruising?

- Nick




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No problem with the Med at all. You may find Third Party will suffice once into and across the Atlantic.

Interested in your thoughts about where you will be mooring if most marinas are full.


Phil

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Charles,

With respect, your vessel appears to be neither under 30ft nor over 20 years old. These are the categories of vessel for which companies are apparently becoming increasingly reluctant to provide ANY cover, including 3rd party.

In letters in this month's YM people state quite categorically that 3rd party insurance is no longer available beyond Gibralter for old boats or boats under 30ft.

While the Western Med is not technically 'beyond Gibralter' and it may be possible to find 3rd party insurance for a 30 year old 27 ft boat for cruising this area, the Atlantic beyond Gib is a different matter.

re. Colvic:

thoughts about where you will be mooring if most marinas are full

Anchoring . . . not mooring. Not because the marinas are full, but because they won't let you in without third party insurance.

- Nick



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Re: As this subjet comes up often

I asked insurers at LIBS what the true situation is.

The insurance industry was blithly insuring anyone who wanted to go ocean sailing in any old boat. Suddenly the insurance world became a bit of a different place and in general, insurers were paying out all over the place. This made underwriting syndicates re-assess there risk profiles in all of the business they wrote. It was decided that the risk associated in ocean sailing was at the small, old boat with inexperienced or under funded skippers. The brokers can't get underwriters to look at this sort of business anymore. Should you be an experienced skipper with a new'ish 40ft'er you can get cover at reasonable rates but your excess will be at least £1000.

Third Party Insurance is also very hard to find.

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Re: As this subject comes up often

I asked insurers at LIBS what the true situation is.

The insurance industry was blithly insuring anyone who wanted to go ocean sailing in any old boat. Suddenly the insurance world became a bit of a different place and in general, insurers were paying out all over the place. This made underwriting syndicates re-assess there risk profiles in all of the business they wrote. It was decided that the risk associated in ocean sailing was at the small, old boat with inexperienced or under funded skippers. The brokers can't get underwriters to look at this sort of business anymore. Should you be an experienced skipper with a new'ish 40ft'er you can get cover at reasonable rates but your excess will be at least £1000.

Third Party Insurance is also very hard to find.

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My sympathy, but I can assure you that you can get cover, if not in the UK from French brokers. the snag may be your lack of the permis,

If you like to send me a PM with your details I'll ask around when I'm next in Roussillon on 3rd Feb.

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Re: As this subjet comes up often

I'm sure they have actuarial tables demonstrating all this.

But . . . common sense suggests that inexperienced people on big new boats are going to cost more money both in terms of fully comp and third party. As regards comprehensive claims, the big new Hunter scuttled in the ARC comes to mind.

So OK, they don't want to insure older boats fully comp even if the payouts would be less - maybe there are more claims. The 3rd party situation doesn't seem to make any sense however. Smaller boats are much less likely to cause substantial damage, for a variety of reasons. I cannot believe that insuring smaller, older boats 3rd party represents a disproportionate risk.

Surely the experience of the skipper and crew is more relevant than the age of the boat, while common sense says that small boats are better 3rd party risks.

Anyway . . . I'm sure I'll be able to spend the money we save on insurance on something more relevant to safety.

- Nick



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Thanks Charles, but it's hypothetical at the moment - this year we won't be going further than Ireland / N. France, I'm just looking ahead to what is obviously a deteriorating situation for owners of older, smaller, lower value vessels.

- Nick


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Re: As this subject comes up often

Ok, so where's the RYA on this? I've paid my subs for many years and it's something they should be actively involved in. As far as I am aware they have a scheme arrangement with an insurance broker (I think it is Bishop Skinner).

I have no complaints about my current insurer (one which has come in for a lot of criticism on this forum), but hear that they are reducing cover generally, based on geography, liveaboard, age of vessel and other criteria.

The RYA should be working to ensure that cover is available at reasonable rates anywhere in the world. It really does concern me that my future travels may be limited because I am unable to get 3rd party cover eg in the Med and need it to enter harbour.

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds
Phil
 
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