Little_Russel
New member
It seems that Anne has a whole pack of killer dogs!
<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...
<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...
Unemployed woman to keep dangerous dogs!
- Thread starter Little_Russel
- Start date
nicho
Well-known member
This whole thing stinks a bit. Firstly it was announced the dog "Dotty" did the nasty deed to the corgi. This was the dog that attacked the kids in a park a short while ago. The RSPCA (of whom the Queen is Patron) said the dog should be put down, their policy being "two strikes and your out". Miraculously however, a few days later, a Palace spokesman said it was not Dotty, but one of the others, one "Florence". Now it has been reported THIS dog attacked a bit a Royal maid a few days before, so where does that put the RSPCA and it's policy?? Am I right in thinking these things are only one step away from pit bulls in their aggresion??
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
sailorman
Well-known member
russel dont suppose your related to jack?.
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Owners, not dogs
Dogs aren't dangerous - it's their owners that are the problem.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
Dogs aren't dangerous - it's their owners that are the problem.
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>
Cornishman
New member
While I go along with most of the sentiments reference the dogs here a look at the Princess Royal's engagements diary would hardly suggest that she is unemployed. I must express a personal interest here - she is my Colonel-in-Chief (Royal Corps of Signals)
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
david_e
Active member
Re: Owners & dogs
Some dogs are dangerous, very few are totally safe in all situations, such as with a baby/child or out on their own.
Agree that the owners are a bigger problem, was 'bounced upon' twice dogs whilst out for a hike yesterday. Fouling is a national problem.
Who was it said that owners and dogs look alike? Can definately see some snout resemblance and not dissimilar temperaments
<hr width=100% size=1>
Some dogs are dangerous, very few are totally safe in all situations, such as with a baby/child or out on their own.
Agree that the owners are a bigger problem, was 'bounced upon' twice dogs whilst out for a hike yesterday. Fouling is a national problem.
Who was it said that owners and dogs look alike? Can definately see some snout resemblance and not dissimilar temperaments
<hr width=100% size=1>
kds
New member
How nice to find someone who is prepared to stand up against the modern trait of hitting the easy target - knocking the Royals.
Well done the Cornish !
Perhaps yachtsmen could find a more worthy target in 2004 ?
<hr width=100% size=1>
Well done the Cornish !
Perhaps yachtsmen could find a more worthy target in 2004 ?
<hr width=100% size=1>
Jools_of_Top_Cat
New member
agression response - very, very long
This whole thing stinks a bit. Firstly it was announced the dog "Dotty" did the nasty deed to the corgi. This was the dog that attacked the kids in a park a short while ago. The RSPCA (of whom the Queen is Patron) said the dog should be put down, their policy being "two strikes and your out". Miraculously however, a few days later, a Palace spokesman said it was not Dotty, but one of the others, one "Florence". Now it has been reported THIS dog attacked a bit a Royal maid a few days before, so where does that put the RSPCA and it's policy?? Am I right in thinking these things are only one step away from pit bulls in their aggresion??
Ok, I have to respond to this, because I have been on the blunt end of people’s prejudice on numerous occasions and get a little fed up with the bad press given to certain dog breeds. ‘Punish the Deed not the Breed’
Having owned and bred Staffordshire Bull Terriers for numerous years and also working with Staffordshire Bull Terrier rescue I have seen many different dogs, I have probably been involved with over 300 dogs, so have some experience in differing temperaments and traits in bull terrier type breeds.
First off, please do not mistake people aggression with dog aggression, they are two completely different phenomena and should be treated accordingly. Also the princess has x-breeds which should be treated with great care, I would not own a x-breed bull terrier nor allow one through rescue, I would never re-home one.
A short history of ‘bully’ breeds. Bull breeds were bred for one reason only, to fight other dogs in pits, hence the name ‘pit bull’. The dogs that went into the breed were carefully selected to fulfil this purpose without compromising the safety of the owner nor his family. Therefore the breed needed to be people friendly absolute. The old pit man would keep his fighting dog in the family home, it would be treated to the best of everything, do not believe the common belief that the dogs are kept in out-houses were owners could not enter without fear of being mauled, or regularly hit by owners to make them aggressive, this simply was not true and would almost definitely have the effect of destroying the dogs will and he would back down rather than fight in the pit. The dogs were often the pit mans means of income and would be treated as such.
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier for instance is the only dog in the Kennel club breed register to state ‘good with children’, he has not earned this reputation be accident, and the kennel club are hardly going to make such statements without extreme caution.
And on, the media love to have a common enemy and will often have to have a predudice, these being Staffs, pits or bull terriers but in I would guess 95% of all stories the dogs are x-breeds. I have been involved with such cases and have in all cases had to inform the police that the dog they have in their kennels is in fact a x-breeed and should IMO be destroyed accordingly. As above the pit men bred in people friendliness, by crossing the breed with something else you are adding an unknown quantity, for instance, x in a German Shepherd and you will get a strong, loyal, fit and overly protective animal that will attack anyone who he thinks is a threat to his pack (family).
Also, it is not uncommon for an owner to ruin his dog, the breeds mentioned unfortunately attract the wrong types of owner, so who is to blame, the owner or the poor dog who will try to please his alpha (owner) and will attack on command, as this is what his alpha requires. Even the dangerous dogs act 1990 accepts that the owner is ultimately responsible for the behaviour of his animal, the remainder of the act is a knee jerk reaction to learned prejudices in this country by biased press.
Animal aggression, well in some bull breeds it is just there, and kept in check should never cause a problem, but like everything it relies upon diligent ownership. For instance my dogs (now unfortunately one) have always been trained to ignore all other dogs while out walking, when another dog approaches I will always call mine in and / or put them on their leash. More often than not after shouting for other owners to call their dogs off while they approach mine; I get responses like ‘can’t you keep your devil dogs under control’ or ‘don’t worry he only wants to play, he wont hurt your dogs’. My reply often being ‘mine don’t want to play!, or “I am not worried about your pooch ‘hurting mine!’”. The usual following torrent usually consists of you shouldn’t be walking your demon dogs if they keep attacking ours etc. Excuse me, mine are sat next to me, while other peoples dogs sniff about or even start barking at me or mine, the other dog totally ignoring the owners calls to get him back. This is stunningly typical behaviour.
So, to my point, The princesses dogs are cross breeds, this puts them miles from the pit bull, I have never ever met a people aggressive ‘pit bull’, and I have met quite a few in my time. If the dog has attacked a person without provocation it should be immediately destroyed, but do not tar a breed with one dogs behaviour, it just isn’t on.
I know of one case, where an owner brought his German shepherd to the vets to be destroyed after it bit his child. The vet duly obliged, but was unhappy as he knew the dog and was shocked by this apparent behaviour. After the owner had left the vet went over the animal to look for and problems, he found half a pencil broken off in its ear canal, I think the child who was about 9 years old deserved all he got. I got this story straight from the vet, so have to believe it.
It is no coincidence that bull breeds are not used as Police dogs for instance, getting a bull breed to attack on command is extremely difficult, near impossible in most cases, bull breed would rather chase and play with an assailant than bring him down. Most if not all ‘pit bulls’ in this country are now cross breeds, as the DDA 1990 instructed that they should be neutered.
I would be impressed if any or all reporters writing about Staffy or pit bull attacks could actually recognise a ‘pit bull’ or pure bred ‘stafford’. But they have to write something that will pique their readers interest so label the animals and therefore bring out the common prejudice in order to ‘sex’ up the story. In summary, do not believe everything you read, do not tar a breed unjustly and do not accept a x-breed dog of the ‘bull’ type.
Sorry to go on, but I am not going to lose my dogs to legislation based upon common misunderstanding of aggression.
<hr width=100% size=1>Julian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>
This whole thing stinks a bit. Firstly it was announced the dog "Dotty" did the nasty deed to the corgi. This was the dog that attacked the kids in a park a short while ago. The RSPCA (of whom the Queen is Patron) said the dog should be put down, their policy being "two strikes and your out". Miraculously however, a few days later, a Palace spokesman said it was not Dotty, but one of the others, one "Florence". Now it has been reported THIS dog attacked a bit a Royal maid a few days before, so where does that put the RSPCA and it's policy?? Am I right in thinking these things are only one step away from pit bulls in their aggresion??
Ok, I have to respond to this, because I have been on the blunt end of people’s prejudice on numerous occasions and get a little fed up with the bad press given to certain dog breeds. ‘Punish the Deed not the Breed’
Having owned and bred Staffordshire Bull Terriers for numerous years and also working with Staffordshire Bull Terrier rescue I have seen many different dogs, I have probably been involved with over 300 dogs, so have some experience in differing temperaments and traits in bull terrier type breeds.
First off, please do not mistake people aggression with dog aggression, they are two completely different phenomena and should be treated accordingly. Also the princess has x-breeds which should be treated with great care, I would not own a x-breed bull terrier nor allow one through rescue, I would never re-home one.
A short history of ‘bully’ breeds. Bull breeds were bred for one reason only, to fight other dogs in pits, hence the name ‘pit bull’. The dogs that went into the breed were carefully selected to fulfil this purpose without compromising the safety of the owner nor his family. Therefore the breed needed to be people friendly absolute. The old pit man would keep his fighting dog in the family home, it would be treated to the best of everything, do not believe the common belief that the dogs are kept in out-houses were owners could not enter without fear of being mauled, or regularly hit by owners to make them aggressive, this simply was not true and would almost definitely have the effect of destroying the dogs will and he would back down rather than fight in the pit. The dogs were often the pit mans means of income and would be treated as such.
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier for instance is the only dog in the Kennel club breed register to state ‘good with children’, he has not earned this reputation be accident, and the kennel club are hardly going to make such statements without extreme caution.
And on, the media love to have a common enemy and will often have to have a predudice, these being Staffs, pits or bull terriers but in I would guess 95% of all stories the dogs are x-breeds. I have been involved with such cases and have in all cases had to inform the police that the dog they have in their kennels is in fact a x-breeed and should IMO be destroyed accordingly. As above the pit men bred in people friendliness, by crossing the breed with something else you are adding an unknown quantity, for instance, x in a German Shepherd and you will get a strong, loyal, fit and overly protective animal that will attack anyone who he thinks is a threat to his pack (family).
Also, it is not uncommon for an owner to ruin his dog, the breeds mentioned unfortunately attract the wrong types of owner, so who is to blame, the owner or the poor dog who will try to please his alpha (owner) and will attack on command, as this is what his alpha requires. Even the dangerous dogs act 1990 accepts that the owner is ultimately responsible for the behaviour of his animal, the remainder of the act is a knee jerk reaction to learned prejudices in this country by biased press.
Animal aggression, well in some bull breeds it is just there, and kept in check should never cause a problem, but like everything it relies upon diligent ownership. For instance my dogs (now unfortunately one) have always been trained to ignore all other dogs while out walking, when another dog approaches I will always call mine in and / or put them on their leash. More often than not after shouting for other owners to call their dogs off while they approach mine; I get responses like ‘can’t you keep your devil dogs under control’ or ‘don’t worry he only wants to play, he wont hurt your dogs’. My reply often being ‘mine don’t want to play!, or “I am not worried about your pooch ‘hurting mine!’”. The usual following torrent usually consists of you shouldn’t be walking your demon dogs if they keep attacking ours etc. Excuse me, mine are sat next to me, while other peoples dogs sniff about or even start barking at me or mine, the other dog totally ignoring the owners calls to get him back. This is stunningly typical behaviour.
So, to my point, The princesses dogs are cross breeds, this puts them miles from the pit bull, I have never ever met a people aggressive ‘pit bull’, and I have met quite a few in my time. If the dog has attacked a person without provocation it should be immediately destroyed, but do not tar a breed with one dogs behaviour, it just isn’t on.
I know of one case, where an owner brought his German shepherd to the vets to be destroyed after it bit his child. The vet duly obliged, but was unhappy as he knew the dog and was shocked by this apparent behaviour. After the owner had left the vet went over the animal to look for and problems, he found half a pencil broken off in its ear canal, I think the child who was about 9 years old deserved all he got. I got this story straight from the vet, so have to believe it.
It is no coincidence that bull breeds are not used as Police dogs for instance, getting a bull breed to attack on command is extremely difficult, near impossible in most cases, bull breed would rather chase and play with an assailant than bring him down. Most if not all ‘pit bulls’ in this country are now cross breeds, as the DDA 1990 instructed that they should be neutered.
I would be impressed if any or all reporters writing about Staffy or pit bull attacks could actually recognise a ‘pit bull’ or pure bred ‘stafford’. But they have to write something that will pique their readers interest so label the animals and therefore bring out the common prejudice in order to ‘sex’ up the story. In summary, do not believe everything you read, do not tar a breed unjustly and do not accept a x-breed dog of the ‘bull’ type.
Sorry to go on, but I am not going to lose my dogs to legislation based upon common misunderstanding of aggression.
<hr width=100% size=1>Julian
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>
pugwash
New member
dogs for kids?
I grew up in NZ with four sisters and a procession of English bull terriers. The dogs were perfect family companions. We didn't have a single bad moment. Even the kittens were safe (though not from the Alsatian we had for a while). The bull terriers never started a fight with another dog, but always finished one. The Princess Anne incidents sound like bad dog-management to me that the one which attacked the children is still around is beyond belief.
<hr width=100% size=1>
I grew up in NZ with four sisters and a procession of English bull terriers. The dogs were perfect family companions. We didn't have a single bad moment. Even the kittens were safe (though not from the Alsatian we had for a while). The bull terriers never started a fight with another dog, but always finished one. The Princess Anne incidents sound like bad dog-management to me that the one which attacked the children is still around is beyond belief.
<hr width=100% size=1>
mickshep
New member
Re: agression response - very, very long
Hear....... Hear......!
<hr width=100% size=1>"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."
Hear....... Hear......!
<hr width=100% size=1>"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."
thewetone
New member
Re: agression response - very, very long
10 out of 10, heartily agree
<hr width=100% size=1>Randy
Once the avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote
10 out of 10, heartily agree
<hr width=100% size=1>Randy
Once the avalanche has started, it's too late for the pebbles to vote
chippie
New member
Here in NZ bull terriers and their cross breeds are much favoured for pig hunting. No guns involved.The owner and his family are the only ones who can get near some of them.
I knew one hunter who used to take a sack needle and thread to sew the dogs back together when they got a boar. Tough dogs and tough men.
I wonder if HRH would fancy a bit of pig hunting.
<hr width=100% size=1>
I knew one hunter who used to take a sack needle and thread to sew the dogs back together when they got a boar. Tough dogs and tough men.
I wonder if HRH would fancy a bit of pig hunting.
<hr width=100% size=1>
poter
Active member
Re: agression response - very, very long
Julian,
Interesting.
Did you hear the conversation today...I think on Radio 2, between a rep from the RSPCA & a dog behaviourist. Very interesting, the behaviourist said that there was no human equivalent of two packs of dogs meeting & aggression coming out, even to the point of one dog killing another. In other words it was not an untypical situation & in no way could the dog or even the breed be dammed.
The RSPCA rep was all for putting the dog down, 2 strikes & your out theory, I could not help but compare the sensible (even to a layman) attitude of the behaviourist & the almost dumb attitude of the RSPCA rep.
Perhaps its me but there seems to be more & more of this type of so called expert who are only in the position by default & then assume a mantle of all knowing expertise. Most of the government come to mind, but that’s another thread.
poter
SWMBO says it was the 'world at one' Radio 4. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by poter on 31/12/2003 19:22 (server time).</FONT></P>
Julian,
Interesting.
Did you hear the conversation today...I think on Radio 2, between a rep from the RSPCA & a dog behaviourist. Very interesting, the behaviourist said that there was no human equivalent of two packs of dogs meeting & aggression coming out, even to the point of one dog killing another. In other words it was not an untypical situation & in no way could the dog or even the breed be dammed.
The RSPCA rep was all for putting the dog down, 2 strikes & your out theory, I could not help but compare the sensible (even to a layman) attitude of the behaviourist & the almost dumb attitude of the RSPCA rep.
Perhaps its me but there seems to be more & more of this type of so called expert who are only in the position by default & then assume a mantle of all knowing expertise. Most of the government come to mind, but that’s another thread.
poter
SWMBO says it was the 'world at one' Radio 4. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by poter on 31/12/2003 19:22 (server time).</FONT></P>
johnwest
Member
Perhaps we could solve the problem and have the royal maid put down ? she obviously shouldn't have been there.
<hr width=100% size=1>
<hr width=100% size=1>
nicho
Well-known member
Re: agression response - very, very long
Jools.
A long, yes, but very fascinating and informative reply, which gives a greater insight into x breeds etc. for which I'm grateful. It seems there is much misinformed prejudice "out there" for certain breeds, which, I, for one have no doubt been brainwashed about, especially following the considerable media interest in these Royal dogs over recent days. I agree with you and Twister Ken, it is very much the responsibility of the owners to ensure their dogs are not a danger to others. I still think, however, there has been a royal cover up following the RSPCA's intervention ("two strikes and your out"), but it has rather backfired following a further attack by the same dog. It will be interesting if they do they right thing in the long run.
<hr width=100% size=1>
Jools.
A long, yes, but very fascinating and informative reply, which gives a greater insight into x breeds etc. for which I'm grateful. It seems there is much misinformed prejudice "out there" for certain breeds, which, I, for one have no doubt been brainwashed about, especially following the considerable media interest in these Royal dogs over recent days. I agree with you and Twister Ken, it is very much the responsibility of the owners to ensure their dogs are not a danger to others. I still think, however, there has been a royal cover up following the RSPCA's intervention ("two strikes and your out"), but it has rather backfired following a further attack by the same dog. It will be interesting if they do they right thing in the long run.
<hr width=100% size=1>
longjohnsadler
New member
Re: Pig hunting
There's nothing like a happy hog man, eh?
<hr width=100% size=1>
There's nothing like a happy hog man, eh?
<hr width=100% size=1>
robind
New member
Re: dogs for kids?
Carefull KDs she is also the top bonana of the RYA?)))
Rob
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
Carefull KDs she is also the top bonana of the RYA?
)))Rob
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
whisper
New member
Re: Pig hunting
Tee Hee Hee - /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/cool.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>
Tee Hee Hee - /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/cool.gif
<hr width=100% size=1>
ColWK
New member
Re: agression response - very, very long
Jools;
Thanks for an informative and sensible view.
Happy New Year
Col
<hr width=100% size=1>
Jools;
Thanks for an informative and sensible view.
Happy New Year
Col
<hr width=100% size=1>
ParaHandy
Active member
Re: dog attacks maid\'s knee ...
whole new meaning to 'house-maid's knee'? .... !!
<hr width=100% size=1>
whole new meaning to 'house-maid's knee'? .... !!
<hr width=100% size=1>