'Uncertain of position'

[zoidberg]

There's a large community of boat users wholly dependent on e-technology for awareness of own position and the proximity of hazards.
There's another, smaller and generally older community who have retained the simpler capability of determining position, etc. by self-contained means. That group includes merchant marine, RN and USN navigating officers encouraged by their professional bodies to have 'more than one string to their bow'..... and the bunch of entrants in the Golden Globe Race 22, currently heading down the South Atlantic towards Cape Town and beyond, using simple sextants and stars.

'Western governments have become so concerned about the vulnerabilities of GPS that they are already seeking alternatives to space-based systems for navigation, timing and mapping' - Times

Implications for us?

 

[Sandy]

None unless you are 100% electronic. Can you rub B2 pencil off a chartplotter, I have never tried.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Maybe someone could invent a system where three base stations at known locations could transmit a pulse at the same time and then the phase difference between the received signals could be compared to give a location. We might need some colourful lines overprinted on our charts but that would add to the fun. Perhaps a music company like Virgin would like to invent it and set up the system.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I think I would be more concerned about the accuracy of guided missiles.

 

[Black Sheep]

I don't accept the premise of the OP's question.

Many people use "e-technology" as part of their navigation toolset. But I don't think there's a large community who are "wholly dependent" on it for awareness of position and proximity of hazards. I think most skippers notice buoyage, and can detect a harbour wall.

 

[Stemar]

Maybe someone could invent a system where three base stations at known locations could transmit a pulse at the same time and then the phase difference between the received signals could be compared to give a location. We might need some colourful lines overprinted on our charts but that would add to the fun. Perhaps a music company like Virgin would like to invent it and set up the system.

Then a troublemaker could transmit pulses to confuse the system. I doubt there's any unjammable system that isn't totally self-contained. Inertial navigation systems have been around since the 50s. If they could do it with the kit available then, think how much more accurate it would be running off your phone. Come on Apple, you're missing a trick! Huawei's offering would tell Xi Jinping where we are and what we're doing at any time.

 

[zoidberg]

I don't accept the premise of the OP's question.... I think most skippers notice buoyage, and can detect a harbour wall.

Well, it makes one alternative to the perennial 'anchor arguments'.... and, and.... news and RNLI reports from around our shores would seem to challenge the other bit.

As for the now-restricted supply of free 2B pencils... the traditional source - and some would say the best - is IKEA, followed by Argos and Toolstation.
There are, of course, some agricultural navigators who prefer to plot using a carpenter's pencil. Others prefer the precision of a Staedler 0.5mm Fineline propelling pencil.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

I hope the powers that be in searching for an alternative to e-nav systems remember that digital watches, useful for determining longitude, would be rendered inoperable by an electro-magnetic pulse. Someone will have to develop an accurate mechanical timepiece unaffected by pitch, roll, changes in temperature and barometric pressure. And we would have to carry at least three of them to have a degree of confidence in their accuracy. Perhaps His Majesty’s Government could offer a prize for someone who could develop such a timepiece.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Maybe someone could invent a system where three base stations at known locations could transmit a pulse at the same time and then the phase difference between the received signals could be compared to give a location. We might need some colourful lines overprinted on our charts but that would add to the fun. Perhaps a music company like Virgin would like to invent it and set up the system.

We could call it Desmond.

 

[Supertramp]

You don't have to look far to see why there are concerns over globally shared infrastructure. Between the militaries and tech companies I'm sure there will be (or are) alternatives.

Anyone who has ever made landfall in a tricky, unlit spot entirely on paper pilot guides, 100 year old paper chart mapping and a ready supply of 2b pencils and rubbers will understand both that it can be done that way and that its much easier with electronics.

The principles though are similar. You need the right gear that you trust - considerable sums spent on pilot guides and detailed charts versus electronics - and you need to know how to use it.

I recall the pride of getting a tight cocked hat using the Seafix system in the dark at 25 degrees of heel, the whole process taking 20 minutes and requiring an hour on deck to recover.....

Perhaps a resurrection of land beacons and a system to receive and plot? At least for coastal areas.

 

[awol]

Heisenberg reckoned we cannot know both the position and velocity at the same time.

 

[capnsensible]

Patience

the capacity to accept or tolerate delay, problems, or suffering without becoming annoyed or anxious.

A lost ability in many forms of modern life, not just the simple procedures of navigating small vessels....

 

[Graham376]

I don't accept the premise of the OP's question.

Many people use "e-technology" as part of their navigation toolset. But I don't think there's a large community who are "wholly dependent" on it for awareness of position and proximity of hazards. I think most skippers notice buoyage, and can detect a harbour wall.

Not so sure about that as I meet an increasing number who sail offshore and totally rely on electronic devices and don't have charts on board.

 

[Neeves]

It seems I'm making a habit of this.

Repeat post.

 

[doug748]

I recall, about ten years ago, there was talk about Loran and/or Decca type systems making a comeback . Here is a bit more up to date stuff about it:

The Return of Loran - xyHt

.

 

[Neeves]

One of the problems, or benefits, of having enjoyed a Scots education is the need for parsimony. This extends to switch Chartplotters off and other electronics when well offshore and in unfrequented waters and in fact simply use pencil and paper, mechanical log, compass and patience until nearer something hard and sharp (and then switch all the gear back on to check). This allows one to enjoy ones music, no matter how garish, without fear you are compromising the ability to arrive as predicted.

One of the odd things about venturing into empty waters is that apart from catering, fishing and the odd maintenance task - there is not much else to do - except old fashioned navigation (and listen to garish music) - unless you have unwisely decided to attempt the GGR in which case you have no crew and have a schedule to keep.

Jonathan

 

[Praxinoscope]

I think I am in the minority as far as our club goes in that I use charts/visual reference for my primary navigation, whilst most now use gps and several don’t carry any charts on board.
I use the gps predominantly as a check on my chart work.

 

[Wansworth]

Well, it makes one alternative to the perennial 'anchor arguments'.... and, and.... news and RNLI reports from around our shores would seem to challenge the other bit.

As for the now-restricted supply of free 2B pencils... the traditional source - and some would say the best - is IKEA, followed by Argos and Toolstation.
There are, of course, some agricultural navigators who prefer to plot using a carpenter's pencil. Others prefer the precision of a Staedler 0.5mm Fineline propelling pencil.

There used to be charts with or printed courses already on ,worked ok

 

[Neeves]

Here its so much easier

Leave Sydney, get out to the 100 fathom line and there is nothing in the way till you get to Storm Bay - all you need to do is, keep the sun at your back, count lighthouses and turn right - and you are at Hobart.

The big blue emptiness needs a bit more paper and pencil.

Jonathan

 

[Boathook]

I think I am in the minority as far as our club goes in that I use charts/visual reference for my primary navigation, whilst most now use gps and several don’t carry any charts on board.
I use the gps predominantly as a check on my chart work.

I now use the plotter rather than charts. Charts are good for passage planning and discussing options with crew; and at present I would not like to be without them for that reason.