Ultrasonic anti-fouling
- Thread starter rogerthebodger
- Start date
Seajet
...
I hate to rain on your parade chaps, but before you lash out on a mini-production line, how about finding out if the thing works ?
The jury's firmly out on commercial ultrasonic antifouling, let alone DIY...remember it's been tried years ago and got a resounding rasperry, a couple of good points raised being that ultrasound is used to scan babies, which it probably wouldn't if harmful - or effective, and submarines using ultrasound and various other frequencies return to port with barnacles attached !
This was discussed at length on these forums not long ago, the kindest it could be called is 'unproven'.
I'd suggest 'Experiment by all means, but don't get carried away'.
The jury's firmly out on commercial ultrasonic antifouling, let alone DIY...remember it's been tried years ago and got a resounding rasperry, a couple of good points raised being that ultrasound is used to scan babies, which it probably wouldn't if harmful - or effective, and submarines using ultrasound and various other frequencies return to port with barnacles attached !
This was discussed at length on these forums not long ago, the kindest it could be called is 'unproven'.
I'd suggest 'Experiment by all means, but don't get carried away'.
snooks
Well-Known Member
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
But have you spoken to anyone who has use an ultrasonic system?
But have you spoken to anyone who has use an ultrasonic system?
Spuddy
Well-Known Member
As to evidence ; a friend installed a commercial system on his boat in June. He put the boat on the scrubbing dock recently to have a look and there was just wipe-away slime round the waterline. Fair enough, early days and just one instance but technology does move on and it might be more than just snake oil. I'll contact the memsahib's son who's an electronic development designer (or similar) and see where he gets his prototype pcbs etched up and also in what format they want the diagram. I'm quite interested in this but eyesight gone downhill in recent years and can't really tell where the soldering iron is going.
Silent Lady
Well-Known Member
Design Software
I have the design software to get the Gerber Files you need for getting the boards made . Just need a circuit diagram . Had a look at the picture on the magazine page . The board looks as though its only single sided so should not cost an arm and a leg to get some made .
Don't do board design for a living but made some sailingtimers a few years back for sailing clubs so use to Pic Micro's etc ..
Lots of different Ultrasonic Transducers to take your pick from . Trouble is when you phone they are not interested in an odd one .
I have the design software to get the Gerber Files you need for getting the boards made . Just need a circuit diagram . Had a look at the picture on the magazine page . The board looks as though its only single sided so should not cost an arm and a leg to get some made .
Don't do board design for a living but made some sailingtimers a few years back for sailing clubs so use to Pic Micro's etc ..
Lots of different Ultrasonic Transducers to take your pick from . Trouble is when you phone they are not interested in an odd one .
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Silent Lady
Well-Known Member
Who's getting carried away
Found a place in China who will make anything . Put it in a box . Put whatever label you want on it . Including CE Certification . 50,000 minimum order .. SO WHO WANTS ONE ..
Are we not allowed to have some fun .
Found a place in China who will make anything . Put it in a box . Put whatever label you want on it . Including CE Certification . 50,000 minimum order .. SO WHO WANTS ONE ..
Are we not allowed to have some fun .
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
The very reason I would not pay the cost of the commercial systems is their relatively untried nature, but a DIY system at reasonable cost is well worth trying. I have just kept my boat in the water for two seasons. With conventional antifouling it was quite clean as usual after one year, and OK last June, but by September the warm summer water in the Med, plus the old antifouling, made for rather more barnacles than I liked to see. If adding an ultrasound system allows me to deter a bit more growth and make it posssible to lift the boat out only one winter in two I will be very happy with it, and it has to be worth trying. One thought is that instead of soft eroding antifouling paint it might be possible to change to a harder smoother paint plus the electonics.
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
What upsets me, is the fact that their website clearly shows the weight as 2.035kg but still quotes £10 postage to the UK; secondly, the fact that they have not updated their site after becoming aware of the issue. If this was my business I would honour the offer - even if making a loss - but make sure the site gets updated quickly to avoid more such orders being taken.
Maybe they can drop a few bits e.g. epoxy, cabling, etc to get the weight below 2kg?
The PCB does not look too densely populated, so if there's a space in the production line for someone with some rusty soldering skills to put things together, I'd be happy to help with that!
ytd
Well-Known Member
not trying defend jaycar but even with the extra postage you guys will still be getting your kit much cheaper than me. Driving to my local jaycar with no postage I will pay $249. In A$ you will pay $115 for the kit and about $80 for postage = $195.
I have pasted below the Australia post cost calculator for information.
Postage Assessment Calculator
Sending parcels internationally
* Country UNITED KINGDOM
* Location Zone D
* Parcel weight >2.0kg - 2.5kg
* Express Courier International Merchandise Delivery within 2-4 business days between metro areas of major cities around the world.
$100.75
Standard international delivery for letters and parcels up to 20kg.
$76.95
* Sea Mail Most economical overseas delivery service for international parcels only, when speed is not a priority.
$40.30
I have pasted below the Australia post cost calculator for information.
Postage Assessment Calculator
Sending parcels internationally
* Country UNITED KINGDOM
* Location Zone D
* Parcel weight >2.0kg - 2.5kg
* Express Courier International Merchandise Delivery within 2-4 business days between metro areas of major cities around the world.
$100.75
Standard international delivery for letters and parcels up to 20kg.
$76.95
* Sea Mail Most economical overseas delivery service for international parcels only, when speed is not a priority.
$40.30
bendyone
Well-Known Member
ColdFusion
Well-Known Member
I've been following this thread with interest because I'd love to read that ultrasonic antifouling lives up to the hype. A (cheaper) DIY system would be a great little project, so it's a shame that JayCar have moved the goalposts after orders have been placed. The postage rate above sounds unrealistic so it looks like they didn't research this properly before quoting postage to the UK on their website. It's bad for business but as a non UK company I doubt they'll be losing much sleep over it. In the absence of JayCar coming up with a cheaper postage solution (unlikely, it seems) it looks like the best way forward is a DIY system from scratch.
bitman
Well-Known Member
got the first magazine article
well i still waiting for them to respond on my email i have send them about the extra costs.
in the mainwhile i have bought the first article and indeed that pcb doesn't look to much of a problem. may be lenseman can help us in producing pcbs? like the idea of working together and create a nice project
ta,
bt
well i still waiting for them to respond on my email i have send them about the extra costs.
in the mainwhile i have bought the first article and indeed that pcb doesn't look to much of a problem. may be lenseman can help us in producing pcbs? like the idea of working together and create a nice project
ta,
bt
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I too am still waiting for a reply. Maybe they are realising that this is bad publicity, and being seen in Australia as well as the UK. Of course they may be busy watching the cricket, and not very well disposed towards us poms.
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ColdFusion
Well-Known Member
As an alternative to making your own PCBs has anyone considered using Stripboard?
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
The big problem for builders may not be the PCB. I have seen the drawing and it looks like a fairly simple single sided job. The difficulty may well be sourcing the correct ultrasonic transducer. One thought I have had is that it should not be too difficult for a competent electronics engineer to design a circuit board with beefier components and two outputs for two transducers.
wizard
Well-Known Member
well i still waiting for them to respond on my email i have send them about the extra costs.
in the mainwhile i have bought the first article and indeed that pcb doesn't look to much of a problem. may be lenseman can help us in producing pcbs? like the idea of working together and create a nice project
ta,
bt
Producing a circuit board the old way from copper clad board and dipping in ferric chloride and drilling through the circuit printed diagram for correct spacing would not prove too difficult for most people.
As has been mentioned above the circuits and articles are easy to download which I have just done. My problem would be:
1. Programming the IC with the software (which is a free download as is the circuit board plan)
2. Obtaining some parts ie the transducer
Perhaps the answer is to just order the parts from Jaycar that we cannot source in the UK (therefore much less postage) and pay someone to program the IC
Spuddy
Well-Known Member
Some of the UK electronics mags sell the pcb separately - maybe Jaycar do the same which for, hopefully, modest cost cuts out a couple of stages in production. Checking the component list - sounds like there's a few on here capable of doing that and I could cultivate at least a couple of specialists to spot snags and maybe even to do some programming. No idea what legal responsibility is but morally I'd feel that paying for a mag download myself kept things all square.
bitman
Well-Known Member
pcb can be bought here; http://users.tpg.com.au/rcspcb/thisyear.txt
SILICON CHIP - 2010 Sep
sc 01209101 $ 12.5O 3202 Hearing Aid Loop Reciever 2010Sep
sc 04108101 $ 38.5O 3203 Electrolytic Cap. Reformer 2010Sep
sc 01109101 $ 8.5O 3204 Hi Performance Preamp 2010Sep
sc 04109101 $ 13.5O 3205 Ultrasonic Marine Anti Foul 2010Sep
MonniotC
Well-Known Member
Well, they finally replied, offering to refund my money if I don't want to pay the extra. They ignored my suggestion to leave the epoxy out to get it under 2kg, so I've suggested it again. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned Twickenham though.
bitman
Well-Known Member
hi,
let us know how you get on as it's seems a good idea to leave the epoxy out since we can buy that local