UKHO withrawing ARCS Skipper Charts

[AntarcticPilot]

That's interesting. A big thing I like about paper charts vs vector systems (at least Navionics and C-Map, I haven't used others) is that the charts show some human intelligence in how they've been laid out. For example, the light characteristics curving around a feature rather than obscuring it, or decisions about which lights to include at different scales depending on how they will be used and whether there are larger-scale charts or plans available to cover things omitted for clarity at the small scale. The vector systems just plonk the features down in their specified position, and it's up to the user to manage zoom and content selection to be able to see everything. If everything is now coming from vector, do they add in a human editing step, or do they just have much better layout algorithms than the average plotter?

Pete

You're talking about generalization, and any large mapping or charting organization will operate according to strict rules in abstracting data for use at different scales. These rules are about 90% amenable to automation, but not entirely, so there is usually a human step in there somewhere! Label placement is another case in point; it is done very well by modern software, but still needs to be checked by a human to be perfect. Things like ensuring labels don't overprint features on specified layers are quite easy; it gets harder where there are inevitable conflicts, and deciding WHICH conflict to allow.

Don't worry - I am sure that there will be a need for human intervention in producing paper products for the foreseeable future, where, in the IT world, forseeable means about 5 years After that, we may be in the realm of HAL!

 

[wadget]

I differ from wadget in one regard - I think paper charts will remain with us, as they do things you can't do electronically (for example, they provide a better area overview than screen based devices can). Also they provide a genuine alternative which is not subject to the same failure modes as an electronic chart. You don't need electricity or batteries to run a paper chart! But they could move to being "print on demand", as some OS products are.

While I agree with you about the benefits of paper charts, the problem is that by July 2018 all new ships over 3,000GT and all existing ships over 10,000GT (the limits are lower for passenger ships and tankers)

Once ECDIS is installed and fully operational it can be approved as the primary means of navigation and if there is an independant ECDIS backup system the ship can be navigated "paperless". I doubt that shipping companies will continue to pay for paper charts and vector charts when they only need to pay for one. As the ECDIS is mandatory it will be the paper charts which go. I don't think they will just disappear rather slowly decline and become harder and more expensive to obtain.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

While I agree with you about the benefits of paper charts, the problem is that by July 2018 all new ships over 3,000GT and all existing ships over 10,000GT (the limits are lower for passenger ships and tankers)

Once ECDIS is installed and fully operational it can be approved as the primary means of navigation and if there is an independant ECDIS backup system the ship can be navigated "paperless". I doubt that shipping companies will continue to pay for paper charts and vector charts when they only need to pay for one. As the ECDIS is mandatory it will be the paper charts which go. I don't think they will just disappear rather slowly decline and become harder and more expensive to obtain.

I think that "print on demand" - as with less-used OS maps - will become the norm, and you will have to obtain paper charts from specialist bureaux, as with OS large-scale maps. I'm afraid that WILL cost more and be less convenient to obtain (I can't imagine chandlers being able to offer the service) - but will mean that you will buy charts that are bang up to date, without purple pen marks on them.

 

[Joker]

I used ARCS for a time, but ordering new charts was so incredibly bureaucratic that I jsut said to hell with it.

If you're selling things, you're supposed to make it easy for people.

 

[charles_reed]

As I understand it all the ARCs (Admiralty Raster Charts) were raster technology - rather like 8-bit computers, obsolete!
So in shelving them all they're doing is moving with progress.

I'd be much more surprised if they were shelving their ECDIS vector charts, though that sector used by yotties could well be "privatised" and dealt through Imrays and the like. Yotties are, after all, a pain in the neck, demanding perfection and wanting to pay peanuts.

I'll continue to use my free ECDIS charts, courtesy of NOAA.

 

[wadget]

I used ARCS for a time, but ordering new charts was so incredibly bureaucratic that I jsut said to hell with it.

If you're selling things, you're supposed to make it easy for people.

I don't think UKHO are really geared up for selling to the general public. They generally sell their products through agents, in some ways I think it would be better if everything was through agents as it would save them cocking up dealing with the general public.