UK yachts barred from continent

ColinR

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www.victoriashadow.co.uk
well not quite but if the proposed legislation due to come into effect on 1 April 2012 then it will become extremely difficult. The proposal is that red diesel can only be used in UK waters so before setting off across the channel you would have to drain the tank and fill with white diesel. Have a look at this:

HMRC Announcement on the use of Red Diesel in Private Pleasure Craft

On 21st February, the HMRC issued draft legislation to take effect from 1st April, 2012, which HMRC describes as follows:-

“The measure provides that red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft can only be used in UK waters. All purchasers of red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to sign a declaration to that effect. All purchasers will be made aware that if they travel outside UK waters they will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other Member States”.

The background to this is that the European Commission has challenged the UK practice of allowing the use of red diesel to propel private pleasure craft despite the condition that full duty is paid. This proposed legislation is an attempt to reduce the likelihood of such litigation. As it stands, this measure should have no impact on members sailing in UK waters only, but it will be prejudicial to those members wishing to sail outside of UK waters, and creates considerable practical problems.

HMRC have indicated that they are prepared to consider comments on the draft legislation from all interested parties by no later than 11th March, 2012.

Comments to HMRC should be sent by email using the link envirotax.bst which can be accessed only via the HMRC web site at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/drafts/rebated-pp-crafts.htm , or by post to:

Transport Taxes Team
HM Revenue & Customs
Room 1/37
100 Parliament Street
London SW1A 2BQ

Your letters will have more impact if you use your own words, but you may wish to consider the following key points:

i) White diesel is not currently available from the vast majority of marine suppliers in harbours and marinas. It is not feasible to install a second tank and pump for white diesel in many of these locations. Where it is feasible, the proposed timescale is not sufficient to make the necessary changes in time.

ii) White diesel currently available in the UK contains bio-fuel. It has previously been accepted that such bio-fuel can have a seriously detrimental effect on some marine engines. It is known to make worse the problems of `bugs’ in tanks causing blocked filters, break-down to acids leading to engine equipment damage and leakage from fuel component seals, all of which represent significant additional safety risks to boat owners using UK white diesel.

iii) In the light of the above points, many owners wishing to sail outside of UK waters will be faced with the only alternative of having to purchase red diesel and having to make, knowingly, a false declaration. This is totally unacceptable.

iv) The measure is also likely to deter foreign boat owners from coming to the UK since, when refuelling here, they will be asked to declare that the fuel will only be used in UK waters, which is patently not the case.
 
There are a number of threads on this matter, but yours is a good prompt for all to submit a response to the proposal and get it changed to something sensible and workable. Thanks Done.
 
well not quite but if the proposed legislation due to come into effect on 1 April 2012 then it will become extremely difficult. The proposal is that red diesel can only be used in UK waters so before setting off across the channel you would have to drain the tank and fill with white diesel. Have a look at this:

HMRC Announcement on the use of Red Diesel in Private Pleasure Craft

On 21st February, the HMRC issued draft legislation to take effect from 1st April, 2012, which HMRC describes as follows:-

“The measure provides that red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft can only be used in UK waters. All purchasers of red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to sign a declaration to that effect. All purchasers will be made aware that if they travel outside UK waters they will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other Member States”.

The background to this is that the European Commission has challenged the UK practice of allowing the use of red diesel to propel private pleasure craft despite the condition that full duty is paid. This proposed legislation is an attempt to reduce the likelihood of such litigation. As it stands, this measure should have no impact on members sailing in UK waters only, but it will be prejudicial to those members wishing to sail outside of UK waters, and creates considerable practical problems.

HMRC have indicated that they are prepared to consider comments on the draft legislation from all interested parties by no later than 11th March, 2012.

Comments to HMRC should be sent by email using the link envirotax.bst which can be accessed only via the HMRC web site at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/drafts/rebated-pp-crafts.htm , or by post to:

Transport Taxes Team
HM Revenue & Customs
Room 1/37
100 Parliament Street
London SW1A 2BQ

Your letters will have more impact if you use your own words, but you may wish to consider the following key points:

i) White diesel is not currently available from the vast majority of marine suppliers in harbours and marinas. It is not feasible to install a second tank and pump for white diesel in many of these locations. Where it is feasible, the proposed timescale is not sufficient to make the necessary changes in time.

ii) White diesel currently available in the UK contains bio-fuel. It has previously been accepted that such bio-fuel can have a seriously detrimental effect on some marine engines. It is known to make worse the problems of `bugs’ in tanks causing blocked filters, break-down to acids leading to engine equipment damage and leakage from fuel component seals, all of which represent significant additional safety risks to boat owners using UK white diesel.

iii) In the light of the above points, many owners wishing to sail outside of UK waters will be faced with the only alternative of having to purchase red diesel and having to make, knowingly, a false declaration. This is totally unacceptable.

iv) The measure is also likely to deter foreign boat owners from coming to the UK since, when refuelling here, they will be asked to declare that the fuel will only be used in UK waters, which is patently not the case.
Whilst appreciating all the angst, it's the UK in direct contravention of EC agreed legislation, so anything anyone does will be a lot of blether and waste of time and energy.

What cannot be changed must be endured.
 
Try this, suitably modified

There are a number of threads on this matter, but yours is a good prompt for all to submit a response to the proposal and get it changed to something sensible and workable. Thanks Done.

Subject: Changes to Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 (HODA)
Dear Sirs,
A change to the law in the UK regarding the supply of red diesel to leisure boat owners is being proposed. I have to express some feelings on this matter since it has a material impact on me as a leisure sailor using maybe 200 litres of fuel a year sailing my boat within the EU.

The idea of large scale transportation of red diesel from the UK to Europe for resale by leisure users is improbable considering the average capacity of most leisure boats is generally around 150 litres. This completely overlooks the fact that the price advantage is in the opposite direction.

The proposed solution seems to lack any imagination or creativity and will only serve to meet an illogical EU directive. The only beneficiary will be HMG in protecting herself, possibly, from the prospect of an action by the EU.
To simply seek to absolve the UK Government from securing an intelligent solution to this question by expecting leisure boat owners to take the risk of travelling outside UK waters is totally unreasonable.

Practically the proposal is flawed because:
If I sign the proposed declaration in order to secure convenient supplies from harbour based suppliers I risk difficulties anyway as soon as I leave UK waters. I cannot believe that HMG would expect me to sign the declaration knowing it is my intention to leave UK waters.
Under the proposed system, if I refuse to sign the declaration then I have to secure supplies of un-dyed diesel at petrol stations and transport that to the boat.
There will almost certainly be a limit to the amount of diesel that can be purchased from petrol stations and transported by car in cans.
Transporting such diesel to the boat in multiple cans will also have associated risks of pollution whilst transferring the fuel to the boat and from the cans to the boat's storage system.
The measure is also likely to deter foreign boat owners from coming to the UK since, when refuelling here, they will be asked to declare that the fuel will only be used in UK waters, which is patently not the case.
The proposed change will effectively deny me the right to travel freely and safely with my boat within the EU.

On technical grounds the powering my boat with currently available white diesel is not an acceptable solution on several grounds. Amongst them are:

White diesel is not widely available from marine suppliers in harbours and marinas. It is highly improbable that most marine suppliers will be in a position to afford to convert their systems to accommodate un-dyed diesel.
My existing fuel system is stained with red dye from years of use. This requires a major operation to clean the system and remove traces of dye from the tanks and piping.
White diesel currently available in the UK contains bio-fuel. It is known that such bio-fuel has a seriously detrimental effect on some marine engines. It also causes problems of `bugs’ in tanks, causing blocked filters and other deterioration in storage leading to engine equipment damage and leakage from fuel component seals. All of which represent significant additional safety risks to boat owners.
It is not practical in most cases to fit second tanks to accommodate un-dyed diesel.

An incident with the Netherlands Customs on this matter and being fined €800 has made me sensitive to the implications of this measure.
I only managed to secure a refund after considerable effort that I was able to convince the Authorities that I had bought the fuel legally and paid the prevailing duty in the UK.
This refund did not compensate for the trauma my wife experienced being escorted at past midnight by armed customs officers to the nearest cash machine to withdraw the cash to pay the fine. The alternative was being detained and the boat being impounded.
This is the kind of scenario that boaters travelling to the EU will be exposed to if this change is made.
A solution would be to withdraw the proposed legislation and for the EU to take a pragmatic view of this situation and develop an intelligent, practical and cheap solution.
Maybe agreeing with our colleagues in Europe that boats inspected that have dyed diesel in their tanks and cannot produce a legitimate receipt issued in the previous 6 months are guilty of an offence.

If some more intelligent and enforceable solution is not achieved then I feel that you will have failed at many levels to represent my interests in the UK and the EU.


Yours sincerely,
 
The essence of any solution must include
1. Rapid installation of pumps for white diesel (preferably without biodiesel) in marinas and other fuelling sites.
2. An agreement that action against UK boat-owners would not be taken for an implementation period long enough to allow existing red fuel in tanks to be used up.
 
I would add:

Under the FOIA, I request that you supply all material evidence, including reports and correspondence, relating to:
1) the EU threat to the UK for continued use of marked diesel in pleasure craft.
2) the availability of unmarked diesel to pleasure boaters
3) the legality of the declaration with reference to all relevant international treaties.
4) minutes of all meetings with the EU, lobbying groups, HMG etc. relating to this matter.
If this request would take more than the statutory time limit for an FOIA request, treat it as 4 separate requests.
 
I some how just knew this would happen, it was a half cocked legislation where our Government set out out to appease everyone, why should anyone be surprised it has backfired.
 
Is it actually possible to buy white diesel for marine use anywhere in the UK (other than in cans at a petrol station)? Even emptying the tank of red and filling with white will clearly leave traces. How draconian will the authorities be in continental coutries in enforcing this where there are traces of red in the tank? It sounds as though Belgium takes a hard line and is best avoided, what about France, Spain etc? Any experience? I have never been stopped and inspected in France, Spain, Azores, Eire

Colin
 
Agree - and I have submitted the following. For all the good it may do.




I note with disbelief the recent proposals to restrict the use of red diesel in pleasure vessels to the UK only.

This is completely unworkable and if this proposal is to come into effect at all (which I would contest - why should I pay road tax on fuel used on board a pleasure vessel?) as a minimum the following need to be taken into account:

1. Where are pleasure vessel users expected to purchase white diesel? Very few marinas (I am not aware of any on the East Coast) sell it. Are pleasure vessel users expected to purchase e.g. 60 / 100 / 500 litres of diesel and transport it by road to their boats in plastic cans? Aside from the logistical nightmare this presents, how does this sit with UK legislation that restricts the amount of fuel that can be carried in a can in the boot of a car? This potential ruling will mean that pleasure vessel owners have no choice but to carry quantities of diesel in their cars in excess of what is lawfully permitted. This poses a real and significant risk to their lives and those of others when an accident inevitably occurs.

2. White diesel in the UK contains biofuel. This is not suitable for use in a number of marine engines. If it is used it poses a significantly heightened risk of "diesel bug" and machinery breakdown. By taking this decision HMRC is putting lives at risk because these problems are well known and clearly documented and a vessel breakdown at sea, in heavy weather or in shallows or in an emergency situation will definitely put lives at risk. It will also increase the burden on the emergency services.

3. These proposals are very likely (and this should not be underestimated - this is all over the European yachting press) to stop foreign pleasure vessel owners visiting the UK, in the same way that it will stop UK pleasure vessel owners visiting the continent. Motor and sailing boats need to refuel in the UK - it is dangerous and unseamanlike to proceed to sea with insufficient fuel, and if they cannot obtain white diesel in a manner that makes it practicable to refuel at a marina foreign boat owners will have to either not refuel their boats or make false excise declarations. In practice they are unlikely to do the latter because they will stain their diesel tanks and risk the potential for fines in their home country if their tanks are dipped.

It is staggering that UK pleasure vessel owners find themselves in this situation:
if the UK authorities were not confident that the continued use of red diesel was lawful they should have taken steps to address this matter years ago - to change their approach on the basis of a challenge by our European neighbours means that the UK authorities were at best disorganised or at worst negligently advised.

Best regards
 
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