Uk Marinas

aqua_sax said:
The pre-booking nonsense is just another covid legacy menace. Covid you may recall gave petulant authorities undue licence to interfere in the lives of ordinary citizens, including making pre-booking (generally, not just berths) a requirement. Any harbour master with latent control freak / parking warden tendencies suddenly had a licence to do the absurd, make pre-booking and even worse pre-payment a requirement. Woe betide the casual sailor who tooled up unannounced. Weymouth stands out as a particularly noxious example.

Back in the good old days (I have been sailing for more than half a century) there was no pre-booking (apart from incredibly rarely a club rally or similar), instead harbours operated a first come first served system and it worked just fine, with harbour masters somehow finding space to fit everyone in. I emphasise, it just worked. The only partial exception I know of was Yarmouth, partial because it was still first come first served, but sometimes it did get to be full on busy summer weekends, and would post a 'Harbour Full' notice at the entrance. But it wasn't a disaster, there were nearby anchorages and other harbours.

One of the reasons I go sailing is to get away from petty officialdom. I also greatly value the fact that sailing is an activity in which you have to respond to the prevailing conditions (which is both a challenge and a reward) and that might mean choosing to go into a place short of your original intended destination because of pressure of weather, or even going a bit further because the conditions were right. Pre-booking screws all that up, and worse, for the inexperienced, may even mean they press on to a pre-booked and even worse pre-paid berth when the prevailing conditions suggest that really isn't such a good idea.

It really is high time we stopped playing ball with this pre-booking nonsense, and just turned up as we always used to, and tell Harbour Master Warden Hodges to stick his pre-booking arrangements somewhere where the sun don't shine.
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Covid increased the prebooking, but the number of no shows made the marinas ask for money up front. The same applied to restaurants / pubs with people booking multiple places and just going to one and not even having the decency to cancel others.
I think that it is settling back down to just turn up on the day, the exception being rallies, normally 6 boats or more.
 
Sandy said:
@Neeves given the amount of anchors you have tested you need to get out more and use them. I am assuming that they have more up to date charts than the ones Captain Cook made of Oz. I best not mention that survey ship that struck a reef a few years back

There are at least two excellent YouTube channels of people doing circumnavigations of Oz, Free Range Sailing and a rather loud couple that need to be watched with the sound on mute, giving you views of all sorts of amazing Oz anchorages..
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Its slightly more than 500nm from Pittwater to Port Davey - we made the passage annually for a number of years, once you leave Eden, about half way there, there are not only no marinas - there are no people nor roads either and very few vessels. Bass Strait provides a barrier to most.

We use a very old Admiralty Pilor Book for Tasmania's west coast, most of the anchorages are the same ones used by Bass and Flinders - and nothing has changed. Most of the surveys were conducted in vessels, like the Rattlesnake and tenders (like Bramble), not much different in size to ours (or yours). The current chart areas on the west coast covered by Cook, Bass and Flinders are, even now, not fully surveyed and have rather large areas of white with a common place name, viz 'Un-surveyed'.

This is Bramble Cove, named after the survey vessel Bramble, the next land fall due west of here is Patagonia and due south Macquarrie Island and then Antarctica. The bay in the photo behind the near headland is all called 'Unsurveyed

We don't have room for skis and dogs so don't go any further.

Get out more?

SW Tasmania has a Storm warning about one a months in the summer - I test anchors for these conditions so that you are safe to anchor in your home waters.



IMG_0021 2.jpeg

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
My complaint, nothing to do with the UK (maybe) - marinas seem to be built in locations which historically were good anchorages, sheltered, sensible depths, good holding. Leaving rubbish places to anchor - no wonder people don't want to anchor.

Jonathan
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Yes,mycomplaintthemarina in west Cowes took up the site of the trots😕
 
PCUK said:
If the office is closed can't you just take up an empty berth and argue the toss in the morning?
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No need even to argue the toss, just pay up. Arguing the toss (I presume you mean about whether you should have pre-booked) gives legitimacy pre-booking that it doesn't deserve. Keep it simple, you stayed overnight, you pay the overnight mooring fee.
 
Boathook said:
Covid increased the prebooking, but the number of no shows made the marinas ask for money up front. The same applied to restaurants / pubs with people booking multiple places and just going to one and not even having the decency to cancel others.
I think that it is settling back down to just turn up on the day, the exception being rallies, normally 6 boats or more.
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The other legacy of 2020 is the loss of dedicated visitor space now given over to permanent berth holders, for example the upper visitor pontoon at Buckers Hard was closed to visitors supposedly to reduce the interaction with permanent berth holders and never reopened. The marina expansion there was intended to do away with rafting in return for a substantial price hike but these days it seems to be the norm.

No doubt good for the marina finances though
 
aqua_sax said:
No need even to argue the toss, just pay up. Arguing the toss (I presume you mean about whether you should have pre-booked) gives legitimacy pre-booking that it doesn't deserve. Keep it simple, you stayed overnight, you pay the overnight mooring fee.
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I don't think it was about the paying but whether the berth holder comes back very late, wants to moor up and go home.
 
Boathook said:
I don't think it was about the paying but whether the berth holder comes back very late, wants to moor up and go home.
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I may be wrong, but I assumed as I have just said that PCUK meant empty visitors berth. The old courtesies worked well enough if you did happen to take a residents berth of any kind - clear out if the resident berth holder returns.
 
PCUK said:
If the office is closed can't you just take up an empty berth and argue the toss in the morning?
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At best his post was ambiguous - and some are more generous in their interpretation

Especially as the 'empty' visitor's berth may have already been booked and paid for by someone ---- arriving at 2am.

:)

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
At best his post was ambiguous - and some are more generous in their interpretation

Especially as the 'empty' visitor's berth may have already been booked and paid for by someone ---- arriving at 2am.
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I agree it was and remains ambiguous unless and until PCUK clarifies, and I may have been unduly generous.

Again, the 'empty' visitors berth that isn't in fact available is just another complication of pre-booking. The berthing master might have thought to put a 'reserved' sign, but that just adds more hassle. What is wrong with first come first served? That way both boats get accommodated (assuming rafting is possible)? It worked well enough in the past.

Pre-booking also cuts the other way. I was in Weymouth not that long ago, and the berthing master swaggered around insisting I raft onto another boat in the Cove, me being at that point the fifth boat in the raft, despite there being two empty berths reserved for, as it turned out, two motor boats due to arrive from Poole. Since it was blowing SW 6 (Beaufort not knots) I took the view that the motor boats were very unlikely to arrive. About an hour later I got a call from someone in the office who had heard the berthing master's hectoring approach and quietly said do you know what, the motor boats have just rung to cancel. At least they did do that! I went onto one of the empty berths.
 
There are plenty of reasons why you may see empty berths in a marina. The berth holder may have forgotten to let the marina he will be away or out of the water. The one many do not realise is some marinas have berths tied to the houses and apartments surrounding the marina. Ocean Village is one. and Plymouth is another. When the housing was built many were allocated a 10m berth and they pay a nominal annual sum to use the facilities of the marina. The berth owner may not have a boat and it remains empty as they are looking to sub let the berth, which they are permitted to do. The marina have no right to allow any visitor to use these berths.

In the past 10 years I have been turned away from only one marina as a major race was due to finish overnight, so anchored nearby. This year I was turned away at 4.30 am by Newlyn harbour as they were full. I just anchored outside the harbour with several other boats. I would not have been happy if there was a gale blowing and having to wait for the tide to enter the locked in basin of the nearby marina in Penzance.

Luckily I have only a 32ft boat, but many larger boats do have difficulty finding marina berths especially in the SW. I heard of one 50ft yacht who never found a marina berth when visiting there for a holiday. He ended up just anchoring, usually for free, and using his rib to get ashore. The historic design of many marinas means they have limited large berths available, but over the decades since they were built boats have got a lot bigger. Back in the 1960's when marinas started being built, a 25ft boat was a family cruiser and a 40ft boat was extremely large. Now a 40ft boat is considered a starter boat by many, hence the problem of finding a berth. Recently I had to relocate my boat from Chatham to Pwllheli in North Wales. It proved to be a difficult problem to solve as there was a long waiting list at every marina. It was only several months after the berthing contracts started and continual phoning, did they say they had a berth. If I had been 12m+ I would still be waiting, so size does matter. Even then I had to pay for the berth and it remained empty for 7 weeks, but I did have a berth to go to.
 
As a bertholders for many years in Solent a few thoughts to the OP who is new to Solent
1 most marina don’t reward bertholders for declaring absences -the risk is if you do on return you find a squatter in your space and while often it’s possible to go elsewhere that’s not ideal if planning to depart by car for trip home 9leaving aside the risk of being hit in some temporary space)
2 you can book and pay in advance at Bembridge and Yarmouth -we have booked and paid for bank holiday
3 we would always book for Lymington and cowes ideally -if cowes it’s not such a problem though as can cross Solent etc to Soton

In West Country much more a free for all -I think we try to book Brixham and then try our luck at Dartmouth say . Avoid Torquay .
Hope that helps
Try during mid week -far quieter
 
To avoid unnecessary stress and anxiety, simply accept that those managing marinas in the office know exactly which berths are available and which are not.....
 
Lefkas must take the gold star for prebooking. Enter your LOA, beam, and draft in to tne website and it presents you with a map of the marina showing suitable free berths and you can pick which you prefer. On arrival a chap in a rib will be expecting you and not only guide you to said berth but also get himself ashore to take your lines.

A pretty price however, 75E per night for 10m last month,.non refundable. Plus a grim shower block. Nice bars await at the end of the pontoons however.
 
aqua_sax said:
The pre-booking nonsense is just another covid legacy menace. Covid you may recall gave petulant authorities undue licence to interfere in the lives of ordinary citizens, including making pre-booking (generally, not just berths) a requirement. Any harbour master with latent control freak / parking warden tendencies suddenly had a licence to do the absurd, make pre-booking and even worse pre-payment a requirement. Woe betide the casual sailor who tooled up unannounced. Weymouth stands out as a particularly noxious example.
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You live in a very different universe to me. I have been met with nothing but helpfulness and good cheer even in Weymouth.
 
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