UFO 34 vrs She 36

Boo2 said:
And even a cursory conversation with someone who's actually owned one will tell you it is exactly that : phrases like "very easy to sail", "she'll look after you", "can stand up to any blow while making progress to windward", "tough as anything", etc etc will pepper the conversation. As you would know Tranona, if you'd ever spoken to someone who'd owned one.
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Boo2 said:
The only boat I've ever sailed in is a First 36.7...
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Boo2 said:
Don't pay too much attention to Tranona.
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With all due respect, Boo2, I think you might be a little unwise to dismiss Tranona's views quite so hastily. He does have rather a lot more sailing experience than you. None of his opinions are contradicted by the owners' views you cite - and remember that all owners, with the glorious exception of Mr Winter, will rave about the excellence of their boats.

Nothing personal, you understand. Just remember that all boats come with a set of rose-tinted spectacles!
 
Ubergeekian said:
What's so great about a sugar scoop stern? Very trendy, I know, but isn't it just a way of losing the stern locker?
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It does take up some room that's true, but personally the facility for easily boarding from a dinghy coupled with provision for a liferaft plus swimming platform make up for that and then some.

Drawbacks might include making it harder to fit a windvane, in addition to the space it takes up.

In fairness, it's also worth mentioning that if space is a big issue then boats made in an era where sss's are available have generally more space than the older boats being discussed in this thread, which would go some way to making up for the missing locker.


Boo2
 
Ubergeekian said:
With all due respect, Boo2, I think you might be a little unwise to dismiss Tranona's views quite so hastily. He does have rather a lot more sailing experience than you.
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Tranona and I have the same number of hours logged on UFO 34's : 0.

Ubergeekian said:
None of his opinions are contradicted by the owners' views you cite - and remember that all owners, with the glorious exception of Mr Winter, will rave about the excellence of their boats.
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That's not my recollection of what people said in reply to him and Quandary in respect of the UFO 34 in the thread here about how to unstep a keel-stepped mast.

And when Tranona suggested an alternative boat with supposedly better downwind characteristics in this thread, it took me all of 40 seconds to find the contradictory information (post 13) from someone who has actually sailed / owned the boats in question :

"Got to take you to task on this one. This is all second-hand rubbish by armchair sailors who like to tell a good tale. My previous boat was an Elizabethan 29 and are usually well regarded by those at the bar who know of the type. Downwind in this boat could at times be a nightmare rolling so bad that first the boom end was in the water followed very quickly by the end of the spinnaker pole)"

So I have to say that I have quite generally not found Tranona's posts to be reliable, experienced sailor or not. And to find him continually banging the same old drum in thread after thread despite contradiction from people who have actually sailed the boats in question is just irritating.

The same straw men crop up time and again : what information can really be gleaned from the (alleged) fact that T. once saw a photo of an (alleged) UFO 34 racing with 6 people (allegedly) on the windward rail ? Hmm ? Aren't there a million photos like that in existence, of a thousand different boats ?

Boring, predictable misinformation. We wait now with bated breath for his sidekick to show up with more of the same...


Boo2
 
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No experience of UFO 34 or SHE 36.

But loads of experience on a Wauquiez Gladiateur 33 which is also a Don Pye design and very similar to the UFO (designed I think within a year of each other). Slightly wider in the stern which makes her more stable downwind.

But a real cruiser/racer in my book. We could sail her short handed (my sister in law still does with a young family ages 15 - 7 after my brother died) or with a full racing crew. Not sure of the locker configuration in the UFO, but the gladiateur has huge cockpit lockers so no sails below. Yes, the accomodation allows for 6-7 berths, but not because you need a huge ammount of crew.

True, she has a large foretriangle, but with a roller genoa you put out what sail you want. We started off with 4 hank-on headsails but later fitted a roller genoa so easy handling. In big weather, we always felt totally in control of the boat and confident in her abilities.

They were really well built. There are a number around which represent perhaps a bit of a project but OP seems to be open to this. I would not hesitate in recommending the gladiateur as a possible contender.
 
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If its of any use, i've done 4,000nm in a She 36.... 3,000 of them as skipper, and rate it, by a country mile, the best boat I have ever sailed.... (and for the sake of completeness, that's been a good few)

I have been out in up to F8, and never once felt that she was anything other than totally safe...

And to boot.... sails like a demon...

I'd not hesitate... if as said above, you can find one in good condition.
 
Phideaux said:
I'd love to hear your suggestions for a 32-36' at 50% of the price that I can sail down to Port Stanley (with stops at Cape Verde and Ascension)?
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If that is the objective, then based on what many other people use for this type of voyaging then you could stay with the traditional - Colin Archer or a steel design like a Wylo - go the modern route with cat or as some have done modify a cruiser such as a Contessa 32 or win the lottery and get a modern ocean cruiser.

However, you are clearly thinking in low(ish) budget territory and I would be thinking more along the lines of the kind of boats that are featured in a parallel thread - 27-30ft long keelers of which there are many that could and have done such passages. You have to set your sights realistically, and despite what Boo 2 says about my comments on the UFO 34 I don't think that is a realistic starting point. It is unreasonable to expect a boat that was designed for hard racing with a big crew to be easily converted to a long distance singlehander.

Of course it can and has been done with similar boats, and certainly the low purchase price is very tempting. However, (ignoring the intrinsic suitability of the boat) the purchase price is only part of the cost. The key figure is what it will cost to get the boat to the state you want for the job you want it to do.

The beauty of these fora is that you get a wide range of opinions - witness 25 suggestions (so far) for the "best" 20-22 footer in another thread. And of course some people speak from direct experience (sometimes with rose tinted spectacles) and others such as me in this case relay a mixture of "theoretical" commentary plus observations from others (which can of course be misguided if not backed up by experience).

One of the inherent dangers in buying bigger older boats is that they can end up too big to handle in every sense of the words - hard to sail properly, expensive to moor, insure and maintain to the point that they become a burden rather than a pleasure.

Probably does not answer your question - but then I don't think there is a definitive answer. Perhaps you either go with the best you think your limited budget will get you or you sit back and imagine doing it when you have enough money to afford the "best" boat!
 
Ubergeekian said:
That aside, the advice that, to summarise, "a boat built and used as a racer is likely to require some changes before it's suitable as a short-handed cruising boat" seems pretty uncontentious to me.
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I don't know where you got that quote but sure, what's not to agree with there ?

However it has got nothing much to do with most of the UFO34s that were made "as fast cruisers, many boats being used exclusively as cruising yachts", so I don't understand your point ?

And it's worth while pointing out that UFOs have not been competitive in offshore racing since the mid '80s so its a fair bet any you do come across now whill be used for either cruising or club racing and will have had most normal mod cons added as a result.

Boo2
 
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Ubergeekian said:
I think you two need to meet up in a bar sometime!
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Or outside a bar by the sound of it...

Cheaper/smaller boats have been knocking around both poles quite a bit over the years...Albin Vega (Beserk), Twister (Cracklin' Rosie), Contessa 32 (Assent), David Lewis's Icebird, even a Coribee 21 (Ming Ming)

Is it worth pointing out that racing speed and speed across an ocean single-handed are not the same thing?
 
Phideaux said:
Actually I'm quite happy with the idea of gutting the interior and rebuilding to my somewhat specific needs. Similarly, whilst a roller-reefing headsail is nice and convenient for cruising, I'm not adverse to hanking on changes. What I can't do is make 100kg (me) the equivalent of 450kg starlings if this is what's necessary for her to sail well under F5-8. There's no chance of me carrying a spinnaker.

I'd love to hear your suggestions for a 32-36' at 50% of the price that I can sail down to Port Stanley (with stops at Cape Verde and Ascension)?
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A UFO34 does not NEED crew on the rail as there is about a 50% ballast ratio with a 6 ft keel. Crew on the rail will of course make it go faster still though.
 
Morgana said:
If its of any use, i've done 4,000nm in a She 36.... 3,000 of them as skipper, and rate it, by a country mile, the best boat I have ever sailed.... (and for the sake of completeness, that's been a good few)

I have been out in up to F8, and never once felt that she was anything other than totally safe...

And to boot.... sails like a demon...

I'd not hesitate... if as said above, you can find one in good condition.
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Having never seen, let alone sailed, either a SHE36 or a UFO34 (yes, yes I know I need to get out on both) I've been looking at the design and specs. I have to say that at present I'm favouring a longish fin and skeg (only from reading various books by Calder and the like) with good ballast ratio and I was wondering if the ballast ratio of the SHE36 is a bit light for single-handed especially in heavy weather? Purely from photos I like the look of the SHE over the UFO and the internal layout (which I can modify) but have some questions about how I'd rig the mainsheet to handle from the helm (although an interesting article in this month's PBO). I need to find some plans showing cross-sections and construction (anyone?). Even better, I need to find a friendly forumite with one... :)
 
Boo2 said:
Teak decks, old and outdated deck machinery, small accommodation cf a modern 36 footer, another 6-8k will buy you an 8 year younger boat with a sugar scoop stern, etc.

Too big for me though.

Boo2
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Not meaning to be at all rude but 36' a bit big because of handling or just cost of upkeep? Outdated deck gear I can live with (well without, as I'd offer a price that allowed replacement). Not too worried about internal accommodation so long as I can stand upright in the saloon and the heads have enough room to sit in relative comfort and strip down and shower when necessary. Need room to install a fridge and a freezing compartment. Also extra water and fuel tanks, water maker, battery bank etc (probably the equivalent of 3-4 people weight and space, but at low c/g).
 
Phideaux said:
Having never seen, let alone sailed, either a SHE36 or a UFO34 (yes, yes I know I need to get out on both) I've been looking at the design and specs. I have to say that at present I'm favouring a longish fin and skeg (only from reading various books by Calder and the like) with good ballast ratio and I was wondering if the ballast ratio of the SHE36 is a bit light for single-handed especially in heavy weather? Purely from photos I like the look of the SHE over the UFO and the internal layout (which I can modify) but have some questions about how I'd rig the mainsheet to handle from the helm (although an interesting article in this month's PBO). I need to find some plans showing cross-sections and construction (anyone?). Even better, I need to find a friendly forumite with one... :)
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The She is an S&S Design ;)
 
They are fabulous sea boats... and handle rough weather as well as anything else I've ever sailed. Can't comment on the UFO in comparison, as I've never sailed one... But heavy weather handling is a She 36's best point... Besides the other one you mention, that she's also a pretty boat... I'd love one if I was on the Market for a 36 footer
 
Tranona said:
Perhaps you either go with the best you think your limited budget will get you or you sit back and imagine doing it when you have enough money to afford the "best" boat!
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Yup, that's the issue in a nutshell. I could spend the next three years trying to find the 'ideal' boat but we all know that there'll be compromises. I'd like to at least work towards something that I can realistically afford and get sailing within the next 12 months otherwise I'll be like every other 'if only' out there.

I have no problem with people pointing out potential pitfalls because I know that I don't know enough.
 
Morgana said:
They are fabulous sea boats... and handle rough weather as well as anything else I've ever sailed. Can't comment on the UFO in comparison, as I've never sailed one... But heavy weather handling is a She 36's best point... Besides the other one you mention, that she's also a pretty boat... I'd love one if I was on the Market for a 36 footer
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Thanks. BTW I've looked at your blog, are you stopping off at Brighton in the next day or two as I'm just down the road and can offer to buy a pint or two in exchange for some wisdom?
 
Weather permitting, will be in Brighton tomorrow lunchtime until at least Thursday evening... Happy to help if I can... Another forumite CPD will be with us too, and he's been through your experience in the last 4 years so might be able to offer a useful perspective... Will be in the marina, boat called Morgana (surprise surprise!)... Feel free to knock on the coach roof, or let me know when/if you are coming via IM, and I'll IM you my mobile number...
 
sailorman said:
I have the Big Sister of the 34 but would have the S&S She 36 over the 34 ;)
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I want to value your opinion but you're being a tad obtuse. Please, if you can advise on where I can get details of design and construction for both (especially the she36) and any enlightenment about their respective strengths and/or weaknesses then by all means PM me.
 
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