Two new beefs...

[DeeGee]

Re: Sorry for bruised toes

So I sit in an armchair, let this stuff calculate that I should leave at 6:00 and head 65* to get to Ijmuiden. In practice, the guy who wrote it had a bad day and I should really leave at 7:30 and head 69*. What sort of difference does that make? I am not asking for WPs from this calculator, just what will the instantaneous and cumulative effect of the tide be over this journey.

You wrote "and I find the idea of placing life and limb in charge of a piece of software"

We do seem to be talking at cross-purposes! As I suggested, this is either my inability to express myself, or your inability to properly read what I wrote?

My practice, for what it is worth starts with deciding where I am going. Using Neptune to give me the best departure time and the suggested CTS. I then use my Yeoman plotter to generate and upload WPs of my choice, for example WPs modifying the suggested CTS to avoid Galloper (I am taking a practical case in point, to make the point). I don't use routes, as I am not driving a motor-boat in straight lines. I use one WP at a time, and select the target WP as and when I am happy I have got as near as I want to the last target.

ps. I, too, am an IT person, difference is - I don't make mistakes >))


<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[DeeGee]

Re: Hi, me again

B****y hell !! You really do take the biscuit!!

That's why I'd not trust auto-routing.

You are the first to suggest that, not moi ! I was talking about tidal calcs only. I agree about wind, overfalls etc. as my last must have made plain.



<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[Twister_Ken]

Regarding biscuits

Alright, have the biscuit back - it's only lightly chewed.

I agree - great if it will do your tidal calcs for you. But (sorry for being thick) I don't see how it can do this before you give it a route. Most routes are more than just departure and arrival points. So human interaction has to take place before it starts doing the sums, surely? In which case, why worry about tidal diamonds in Ashford, Kent?

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[DeeGee]

Re: Regarding biscuits

OK.
Imagine that there is an island halfway across from the Needles to Alderney. You don't want to go there, or anywhere near it.
Now, most times, for the tidal calcs, we pick off some waypoints from the Hamble through the Solent (really lazy stuff, hey?) where we DO have to go, and finally a WP of Hurst Castle (issatright??) then another at Alderney [[[remember we are only looking for tide etc so we can get an optimal depart time and indicated cts]]].
Now, most time, the predicted COG will be a nice curvy line missing the nasty island in the middle. But it may equally do an S curve, right through the island. I don't want to put a WP off the island, as it will then become part of the optimal-seeking calcs for all of the 24 hrs it can try.

I don't think that made it particularly plain, either, but I am going out now, so it will have to do. [[ As for Ashford, supposing I were going from Cherbourg to Lowestoft. COG goes straight through the centre of Ashford ]]

PS. I repeat that this wasn't a REAL beef, Neptune is actually v good and is a wonderful tide-slide-rule. The REAL beef was £55+VAT for some compressed N.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[Chris_Robb]

Dying!

<hope to die at the tiller rather than in bed. >
from your profile - hope its not prophetic!!!


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[Ohdrat]

Re: How many progamers

have an inkling about navigation anyway??

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[Bergman]

Re: I dont want a biccy

But I am surprised that a man with 50 years sailing experience uses this stuff. passage planning and tidal calcs must be second nature to you.

Genuinely interested in why, not having dig, not my style - except occasionally at TK

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[jeanne]

Beefs One and Two

I think that this common obsession with navigational software is essentially religious in origin, another attempt to convince ourselves that we know all the answers, and that, with all the right rituals, we will get where we want to go [i.e. Heaven/Cherbourg]. If we accept that we are all sailing on an unpredictable ocean, in body and in spirit, we will all be much happier.
Mind you, that may mean that although Beef Two is less important, Beef One may be more so! It also makes the problem of getting back to where we parked the car more difficult!

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[johna]

Re: Beefs One and Two

jeanne

Having been accused of not reading DeeGee's post I have read your post a number of times but have failed to comprehend the content of your message.

I do not have an obsession with navigational software. I do use planning software to assist in confirming departure times and the arrival times at tidal gateways for example. Always with the knowledge that on the day the wind strength and direction may make a complete nonsense of the pre-planning. However, given the actual conditions the software enables me to very quickly re assess the situation and change the plan accordingly.

Your reference to spirit may be appropriate as I have consumed a few tots of Bells tonight and may be that is why I have had difficulty comprehending your message.

johna

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[Guest]

Re: How many progamers

Good question. I ended up getting a program that was written by a circumnavigator who put a ton of trad nav tools into it as well as all the mod cons - he knows what you need out there if anybody does. Fitzy

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[Guest]

Re: How many progamers

Good question. I use a program written by a circumnavigator explains why it has alot of traditional implementations apart from the mod cons. Fitzy

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[DeeGee]

Re: I dont want a biccy

Don't have to do passage planning and navigation to find your way round the cans! Have only been seriously cruising for 5 or 6 years. Having said that, the man/woman who thinks they know it all is likely to end up stuck in the putty or broken on the sands of the East Coast.

I'll give you an example of the difference between know-how and automation: I CAN pick up Reed's and do the calculation for the tide of a secondary port, so as to know when there will be enough water to pick up the hook and go. I can use the cotidal charts of NPxxx to determine what water there will be over Galloper (you won't find that in Reed's). But why do that, when I have a bit of s/w on my laptop, that does it in about 10secs, and probably doesn't make that little error that I made but didn't notice?

My opinion of software and computers is that they should be used to automate/simplify any look-ups of tables, computation of cts etc etc, but, irrationally, I would rather use only the GPS computer and those in the instruments. I don't like fully electronic chart plotters or autopilots in fully programmed mode. I am happy with the Yeoman, and if the connection to the battery and GPS fail, I can switch to manual mode totally seamlessly. I am happy to tell the GPS where I want to go to next, but I won't let the GPS and the autopilot talk to each other. As I said, irrational, but the alternative is rather like someone facetiously suggested - 'radio controlled cruising' - not my cuppa. (;-)

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[ghostwriter]

no wonder they call you beef-eaters...

deegee , would you mind not spilling those beans ??? next you will see is that the price of the software will be doubled when the manufacturers get the message their soft is also o.k. for land-use.

imagine , somewhere around 1990 , testing one of the first car-mounted GPS sets in Tokyo....put the pointer to the middle of Tokyo bay and ask the gps to drive me there , which it actually did ....some japanese are still wondering why western people are so crazy and they still haven't found the BMW850 in which it was mounted /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[DeeGee]

well, as a ghostwriter, I guess they haven't found your corporeal existence yet?
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<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all