Two dead, four injured in Padstow speedboat crash.

prv said:
The difference is that when my statements are assumptions, conjecture, or guesswork, I say so rather than asserting them as fact. If and when they're shown to be incorrect, I cheerfully admit it. You are notorious to the point of mockery for insisting on keeping digging.

Pete
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This may be true, but my eyes do tend to glass over when I'm reading your posts, whereas there's always of a gem of humanity, no matter how flawed, to be found in Seajet's.

:o
 
Iain C said:
IMHO, sad as it is, it's just a simple case of education. I agree with the comments that had it been a bunch of tattooed lager louts the reporting would have been different...but as it was a media exec, what do you expect from the media?

People just don't appreciate what a weapon a powerboat can be. People just need to stop and think. If you had said "here, have a go in this. It's a 300hp off roader, there's a load of jumps over there for you to play on. There's no roof, no doors, no seatbelts, no roll bar, no brakes, it's only got a hand throttle, so for christ's sake don't fall out 'cos it will keep going...so pop your family in the back and go and give it the beans" the average person would say "hang on a minute...that doesn't seem like a great idea...are you sure?". Why is a boat any different?

It's terribly, desperately sad and I can only imagine what was going through the family's minds as the RIB was circling. And thank goodness no third parties were caught up in it (if that makes any kind of sense?). If there is one bit of positivity out of all this, perhaps it will make people think again about killcords. I'll hold my hand up...in my poxy little 2.3m rubber duck tender with my 2.5 on the back, if I was accompanied, going 50 yards between Lymington river moorings and the quay, I might not bother with it. Guess what I did religiously this weekend.

The killcord goes around your leg because it does give a degree of movement and enable you to stand or move around without cutting the engine inadvertently. Wrist is a big no no as it is very easy to slip off (and do we know for sure that this isn't the case in Padstow?). Prop guards have, I believe, been shown to potentially make things worse...sucking in or trapping a limb in low speed incidents. TBH if a RIB is circling at 20 knots and you get hit by the unguarded or guarded prop, the bow shackle, the hull or the outboard leg it's going to hurt and make a mess.

People with any degree of common sense would not drive a car without a seatbelt. You shouldn't drive a powerboat without a killcord. I'm sure in this case it was a tragic oversight rather than a "killcord...whatevaaaa" situation. And for the muppets who insist on riding bikes with no brakes, not weating seatbelts in cars, riding mopeds with the helmet strap flying in the wind, or for that matter deliberately driving a RIB with no killcord because it won't happen to them and they are a rebel/too cool for killcords, no amount of education will help as they are trying to make a "statement" so we must fine the bejesus out of them or leave natural selection to do it's thing (to repeat, I do not think for a moment the Padstow family were in this bracket.)

I ride mountain bikes too. If you turned up at a trail centre and hit the singletrack with a dodgy looking bike, no helmet, and no idea on riding etiquette, you'd get called a total ****** by every other rider there. It would be totally socially unacceptable on the basis that you do not have the right to bugger up someone else's life by making them the one who cradles you in their arms as the last bits of brain trickle out of your left ear hole because you've made a big mistake. Unsafe powerboating needs to have the same stigma as lighting up a fat cigar on the quiet coach of the train. People WILL say something as it's potentially THIER life you are endangering.

So very sad but I do hope this is the tipping point for powerboat safety...
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Local Paper has a reported interview with the MD of the RIB Manufacturer's in Christchurch. He basically stated, that the amuck RIB, was stopped, by pulling on the killcord, which was still attached to the boat - so no fault with that system.

However, as previously stated by many, it will only work if also attached to the Driver.
 
testmonkey said:
Well a very simple method exists already - no investment required - it's called throttle friction setting.

I know a full service boatyard who maintain several powerboats. They always set the throttle friction to very low. When you drive a boat like this you need to keep hand on the throttle otherwise it slowly pulls back to idle in a couple of minutes. A boat circling at idle throttle is a lot less dangerous than one going full speed.

The boatyard boss recognises the fact there will always be people who just don't use the kill chord, this low-friction setting will help to mitigate the outcome.

Maybe this is something RYA could take onboard as best practice, the wider leisure marine industry could drive self-regulation towards this. Self regulation could be better received than more legislation.
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+1 Its how mine is set.
 
I still ask myself the question "why don't we make it compulsory to have a propeller guard?"

It is like a dog, it can bite. But fit a muzzle and no matter how hard the attempt to bite may be the consequences are minor.

Yes the boat could hit at speed but most damages are from the screw winding down the length of the body and limbs.

I am concerned at the tenders in shallow water near swimmers. Kill cords work, and work well but where for instance a swimmer is being recovered from a group in the water and the motor is on tick over, say with a centrifugal clutch what happens if someone slips and grabs the handle for support.....
 
Mariner69 said:
I still ask myself the question "why don't we make it compulsory to have a propeller guard?"

It is like a dog, it can bite. But fit a muzzle and no matter how hard the attempt to bite may be the consequences are minor.

Yes the boat could hit at speed but most damages are from the screw winding down the length of the body and limbs.

I am concerned at the tenders in shallow water near swimmers. Kill cords work, and work well but where for instance a swimmer is being recovered from a group in the water and the motor is on tick over, say with a centrifugal clutch what happens if someone slips and grabs the handle for support.....
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If a person is in the water, near the boat, ideally engine shouldn't even be on "tick over".

Whenever doing watersports I always ensure its off.
 
Mariner69 said:
I still ask myself the question "why don't we make it compulsory to have a propeller guard?"

It is like a dog, it can bite. But fit a muzzle and no matter how hard the attempt to bite may be the consequences are minor.

Yes the boat could hit at speed but most damages are from the screw winding down the length of the body and limbs.

I am concerned at the tenders in shallow water near swimmers. Kill cords work, and work well but where for instance a swimmer is being recovered from a group in the water and the motor is on tick over, say with a centrifugal clutch what happens if someone slips and grabs the handle for support.....
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Following the report of the last incident of a similar kind (young lad thrown out of RIB and hit by prop) the RYA conducted a poll on the subject. Don't know the results.

However there is a lot of resistance to prop guards with reports that they are either not very robust or they have a disproportionate impact on performance.

Although the outcome of being hit by a prop can be deadly, not sure the incidence of it happening is very common, and as in this case can be avoided by prevention.
 
We can try in vain to legislate that everything that might be risky becomes illegal until it becomes compulsory to have bungs in tenders to pevent back injuries moving them, compulsory certified oars, rowlocks that can't fall out...stanchions on canoes...MOT's on outboards ...authorised passage plans .where does it end?


That way we will all learn to assume that all is safe, take no care and look for who to sue when we find out the hard way that it can't be.

The way forward has to be for people to assess the danger in their own circumstances, but to do that they have to think.
Prehistoric man could not sue the council if he tripped on a treeroot. He had to look where he was going.
 
chewi said:
We can try in vain to legislate that everything that might be risky becomes illegal until it becomes compulsory to have bungs in tenders to pevent back injuries moving them, compulsory certified oars, rowlocks that can't fall out...stanchions on canoes...MOT's on outboards ...authorised passage plans .where does it end?


That way we will all learn to assume that all is safe, take no care and look for who to sue when we find out the hard way that it can't be.

The way forward has to be for people to assess the danger in their own circumstances, but to do that they have to think.
Prehistoric man could not sue the council if he tripped on a treeroot. He had to look where he was going.
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Agree.
Without commenting specifically on these two incidences, Ribs are low slung,powerful,performance boats. The incidence rate of accidents is likely to be higher , I suspect- something the skipper needs to be aware of.
Falling off a sailing boat is far more likely than falling out of a motor cruiser. Each boat has specific dangers to the boat.
 
Tranona said:
...However there is a lot of resistance to prop guards with reports that they are either not very robust or they have a disproportionate impact on performance...
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And can cause damage to the engine. It could be a slippery slope as well - any propeller is dangerous near a person in the water, not just outboards, do we really want it argued that every propeller should be fitted with a guard?


Tranona said:
...Although the outcome of being hit by a prop can be deadly, not sure the incidence of it happening is very common...
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These are American statistics but fatalities due to propellers are way down the list: http://www.propellersafety.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/uscg-boating-statistics-2012-table17.jpg

Frictionless throttles are problematic too - in rough conditions it can be difficult to maintain a constant speed as there is nowhere to brace your arm on most RIBs. The last thing you want is to be pushing the throttle forward against no resistance every time you hit a wave - the friction works in both directions and can help to maintain control.
 
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I met his brother yesterday, taking compassionate leave from the Army while he 'sorts the family out'. The trauma, self-questioning, anger at the departed, grieving for a child, caring for a severely injured child and adjustment to a three-limbed one-parent family all at the same time are unimaginable to me. My thoughts are with them.

And I have vowed always to wear my kill cord - even if my 2.3hp tender doesn't quite match the beast that this guy was throwing around the sea. If only as an example to my own children.
 
l'escargot said:
And can cause damage to the engine. It could be a slippery slope as well - any propeller is dangerous near a person in the water, not just outboards, do we really want it argued that every propeller should be fitted with a guard?


....
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That's a bit simplistic, you know. The propellors on large yachts and mobos are usually sufficiently deep and inset from the waterline that contact with a swimmer is very unlikely. An outboard is a very different thing.
 
maby said:
That's a bit simplistic, you know. The propellors on large yachts and mobos are usually sufficiently deep and inset from the waterline that contact with a swimmer is very unlikely. An outboard is a very different thing.
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Not when the boat is passing over you... Every propeller near a person in the water is a danger - whatever the boat.
 
Maby,

I'm with you.

When I was 10 I saw a young girl being carried off a speedboat on Lake Windermere ( no speed limits then ) with blood pouring from deep gashes in her leg.

The singer Kirsty McColl was killed by a speedboat after she pushed her daughter out of its' way.

A couple of friends rescued a chap who was lying on a mudflat bleeding to death after a very similar accident to the Padstow one.

Legs float up if one is in the water; to argue about prop guards being ' bad for performance ' illustrates the sort of mentality of speedboat / high perfomance mobo drivers who don't care to look up the long list of past accidents, and learn.

I know a mobo owner who reminded me of ' Spinal Tap ', when asked about nav or safety instead of saying ' but this amp goes up to 11 ' he said " but this has 100 hp " !
 
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