Two dead, four injured in Padstow speedboat crash.

Mariner69 said:
I still ask myself the question "why don't we make it compulsory to have a propeller guard?"

It is like a dog, it can bite. But fit a muzzle and no matter how hard the attempt to bite may be the consequences are minor.

Yes the boat could hit at speed but most damages are from the screw winding down the length of the body and limbs.

I am concerned at the tenders in shallow water near swimmers. Kill cords work, and work well but where for instance a swimmer is being recovered from a group in the water and the motor is on tick over, say with a centrifugal clutch what happens if someone slips and grabs the handle for support.....
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Rule 1 on the RYA Safety Boat course - if in contact with someone in the water, the engine is off. Never in neutral.
 
l'escargot said:
Yes they do, don't yours? Or they would if the bath was deep enough to immerse my whole body unsupported.

Muscle and bone, the main constituents of legs, have negative buoyancy. You need fat and air filled cavities to float. Legs sink in an immobile body, with or without a life jacket on, face down or face up. You need some sort of swimming action or other muscular action to bring the legs up.

Next time you have a leg of pork or lamb for Sunday lunch, chuck it in a bowl of water and let me know whether it sinks or floats.
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You are right. Despite perceptions of doing this

http://vigimom.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/float.jpg

dead bodies (once the lungs are filled with water) sink until decomposition causes gases within the flesh.

So I won't spoil my Sunday roast.
 
l'escargot said:
And that is the nub of the discussion. A RIB hitting you at 30 knots is unlikely to cause you any less damage with a prop guard and the effect of a prop guard is more than knocking a bit off the top speed if you read the RYA advice. And what exactly is " an overpowered Mobo", one that can do 10 knots, 20 knots or more, or just one that can go faster than a sailing boat?

If you want to take the discussion a step further and apply it to slower boats with any form of propeller, your propeller out of control at 8 knots is as capable of inflicting equal damage to a swimmer in the water as that of a RIB at the same speed. It is probably just less likely to end up in that situation - in cases like this the prop strike is the secondary incident caused by the primary incident which was the helm being ejected from the boat and no mechanism for stopping the engine coming in to play for whatever reason.

If you wanted to look at picking up a swimmer or even a MOB I would perhaps suggest that your propeller would present more of a risk, especially if you have a boarding ladder or sugar scoop - it is much easier in a manoeuvrable RIB to recover someone away from the prop than it is in a large sailing boat.
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Not having studied any research into the safety effects of prop guards, I must bow to your knowledge. On your final point, it may well be difficult to recover an MOB into my boat due to the high freeboard and potential for hitting the casualty with the swim platform, but the propellor is more than 2m from the waterline in all directions, so the casualty would have to work pretty hard to get struck by it. But to come back to my original message which seems to be causing you so much trouble, I was not saying that it was impossible for a large sailing yacht to cause injury with its prop, simply pointing out that ii is a lot less likely than it is with an outboard.
 
Might the unimaginably tragic familial factors in the Padstow case, create a fresh degree of foresight and responsibility in small-motorboat users' minds, for the future?

It seems this awful denouement didn't reflect uncaring recklessness, but momentary oversight, borne of an overly-relaxed (possibly untutored or inexperienced) approach.

If as passengers in motorboats equipped with killcords, we absolutely never tolerate their being unused, and kick up a noisy stink whenever lackadaisical practice is observed (and, encourage fellow-passengers to feel and show the same acute intolerance of sloppy practice), this tragic happening may mark the last of its terrible kind?

Like seatbelts/crash-helmets, the killcord is to cope with unforeseen, unavoidable circumstances. Not using one provided, is as unacceptable as driving whilst drunk.

Few wanted obligatory car-seatbelts when the law changed, and nobody wants new, creeping legislation to affect boat-users. If we'd all worn car-seatbelts voluntarily, from commonsense, perhaps that law mightn't have been judged to be required?
 
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Looking at the pic of the killcord on the rib, it appears stretched, not tightly coiled. Is there any significance to that? I'm struggling to imagine how the cord could be stretched like that and not detach, mind.
 
Vitesse said:
Looking at the pic of the killcord on the rib, it appears stretched, not tightly coiled. Is there any significance to that? I'm struggling to imagine how the cord could be stretched like that and not detach, mind.
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Probably just means that it has been used a few times - the cord on our old outboard was similarly stretched - they are not particularly stiff material..
 
Vitesse said:
Looking at the pic of the killcord on the rib, it appears stretched, not tightly coiled. Is there any significance to that? I'm struggling to imagine how the cord could be stretched like that and not detach, mind.
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Depends on the cord, not all are the coiled type. Mine is a straight piece of cord, not coiled plastic.
 
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Does the nature of the cord's design make any difference? Surely if it had been used at all, this wouldn't be news.
 
maby said:
...but the propellor is more than 2m from the waterline in all directions, so the casualty would have to work pretty hard to get struck by it...I was not saying that it was impossible for a large sailing yacht to cause injury with its prop, simply pointing out that it is a lot less likely than it is with an outboard...
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Never underestimate how far a boat will pivot or pitch in anything but flat seas and the bigger the boat the further the ends move. I wouldn't underestimate the likelihood either.

The point I was making was the need to be careful for what you wish for - if there are calls for prop guards, don't assume we won't all be lumbered with them...
 
l'escargot said:
Never underestimate how far a boat will pivot or pitch in anything but flat seas and the bigger the boat the further the ends move. I wouldn't underestimate the likelihood either.

The point I was making was the need to be careful for what you wish for - if there are calls for prop guards, don't assume we won't all be lumbered with them...
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If I could find one to fit my saildrive, I would seriously consider it - if only to protect against ropes - had a close call (my own fault) just a couple of weeks ago.
 
maby said:
If I could find one to fit my saildrive, I would seriously consider it - if only to protect against ropes - had a close call (my own fault) just a couple of weeks ago.
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I would be surprised if they weren't available for saildrives, they do them for sterndrives, although you would probably be better with a decent rope cutter - you could still get tangled and attached to the bottom with a prop guard. I think if they were a good solution to ropes, lots of people would have them
 
l'escargot said:
I would be surprised if they weren't available for saildrives, they do them for sterndrives, although you would probably be better with a decent rope cutter - you could still get tangled and attached to the bottom with a prop guard. I think if they were a good solution to ropes, lots of people would have them
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Been searching the web and I can't find them. Rope cutters for saildrives seem to attach to the anode and I'm not convinced that this would be strong enough to drive through any moderate rope.
 
l'escargot said:
This is a saildrive cutter that goes on the shaft: http://www.ropestripper.com/saildrives.php
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Read the instructions:

The fixed cutter is restrained by a peg that passes through the modified anode supplied with the Stripper and locates in an exacting cap screw in the drive body. Future anodes can be purchased from ourselves, or you can modify anodes from their respective manufactures.

Sorry - I'm the one that should be reading the instructions!
 
maby said:
Read the instructions:

The fixed cutter is restrained by a peg that passes through the modified anode supplied with the Stripper and locates in an exacting cap screw in the drive body. Future anodes can be purchased from ourselves, or you can modify anodes from their respective manufactures.

Sorry - I'm the one that should be reading the instructions!
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I thought you were referring to the prop hub anode as I have seen simple circular blade cutters that fit there for saildrives - I would question their effectiveness but a scissor one like that should be reasonably effective.
 
I have been actively involved with running safety fleets for dinghy racing in the past
The one thing that was held sacrasanct above all else was use of kill cords - no excuses

If you has to do a MOB recovery, once manouvered close to the MOB, we would pull the kill cord its the easiest way of stopping the engine.

We had long debates on the use of propguards, but always came back to the same conclusion, if the prop guard is robust enough to not deform into the propellor when struck then its is made from heavy duty material. In order, then, to allow a reasonable flow over the prop the gaps between the guards has to be relatively large, whilst this might protect an adult limb from a prop strike it would not protect a small adult or child, indeed it may actually entrap limb against the prop increasing the injury. And it would not significantly reduce the injury if the rib was travelling at speed.

The only way to prevent these sorts of accidents is to wear a kill cord that works and to be honest I would be happy for legislation to make it law (yes I know it would be difficult to define but we could have a go), the last thing I want is to be on the receiving end of a run away rib.

One other point I think many people do not like putting on a kill cord because they put in round their wrist, which then hampers movement of that limb - put it round your thigh/leg you dont even notice its there, but it works just as well if you get thrown out of the boat.
 
I'm well aware of the circumstances of Kirsty McColls' death by speedboat, the common theme is injury / death by propellor.

If prop guards are judged insuffient or too much hassle, maybe there should be legislation saying inboard water jet jobs only ?
 
maby said:
Been searching the web and I can't find them. Rope cutters for saildrives seem to attach to the anode and I'm not convinced that this would be strong enough to drive through any moderate rope.
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They do not attach to the anode, but are driven by pegs in the back of the prop. The fixed cutter is held stationary by a peg that locates in the cap screw on the housing. That peg passes through a hole drilled in the anode but is not connected to it in any way. Very strong, chops up rope and plastic bags. Literally thousands in use with no problems.

Sorry - just seen you have found the information.
 
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