Two bouts NTM Clyde

[moomba]

I had one under my yacht in the FOC, way back in the late 1980s. There was an exercise going on with frigates and helicopters searching for the submarine, a lot of pings being heard through the GRP hull. We were off Aran's east coast, south of the Holy Island on passage to clear the bottom of Arran and head for the Mull of Kintyre. It was a sail training yacht and the only place that the crew were allowed to smoke was on the aft rail. Earlier in the day we had seen a small periscope, for want of a better term, pop up and down from time to time, this looked from a distance like thin rod with a tin can on top. A shout went up from the smokers and right behind us, 5 to 10 m, was a periscope, not the rod with tin can on top but a big tube, estimated about a foot or two in diameter, sort of dome top with bits and what was clearly a double lens, binocular style, behind a cover (if my memory is serving me well). I guess we were only doing a few knots, 5 at the most.

Off our port bow, down near Ailsa Craig there was a frigate that started whining as its stern dug in and it accelerated towards us at was was a colossal speed. The frigate passed ahead and turned a full 360 round us with the pings in the hull now quite loud. The frigate proceeded to search up and down a narrow corridor getting further away from us. About 30 minutes later yellow smoke appeared on the surface in the direction that the frigate had originally come from and a helicopter headed over the smoke and lowered, I assume, a sonar device into the water.

The 1980s were fascinating in the Clyde area, always lots going on, with many boats sailing up and the Clyde. About an hour after the start of a feeder race for the Tomatin Series (as it was then), in light airs, the fleet was spread about but still clustered, a diesel submarine turned up and proceeded to weave its way through the fleet. Today, you don't see much, the occasional boomer, the Yanks are gone, the Hunter Killers I think have moved south and the diesel submarines are probably all scrapped now.

Brillant story ,yes it was also common practice during excerises for the hunted Sub commander to hid under large yatchs and ships, and why not makes good sense, yes only the boomers in Faslane now , all hunters have gone south for the weather

 

[capnsensible]

Nope was standard practice in the cold war , British and USA killers would do the same up near Murmansk for the Northern Fleet, this allowed their acoustic signal to be distorted, also the Nato has listening stations on the sea bed from Iceland too Shetland and all down the Atlantic to detect the Russian SSBNs sailing into the Atlantic , so they would sit under freighters to hid their movements.

Dude, I spent 17 years in the Submarine Service during the cold war. Dont believe everything you read in Tom Clancy books....

You did get the bit about the seabed sonar system SOSUSS right tho.

 

[moomba]

Dude, I spent 17 years in the Submarine Service during the cold war. Dont believe everything you read in Tom Clancy books....

You did get the bit about the seabed sonar system SOSUSS right tho.

Yes I know but you did not spend any time in Russian boats and father was in the Navy for 20 years.
I do believe the Soviet did sit under freighters and tankers going up the Clyde and used then too escape US boats and the monitoring sytsym getting them , also maybe because you think they did not do this, is maybe because you could not detect them , so how did Soviet boats get into he Clyde past that wonderful system on the sea bed , and also old boots has just given you an experience of it happening.
And dude Don't knock Mr Clancy, although he did not write about the Clyde to my Knoweldge

 

[capnsensible]

BOB, yeah the Clyde was busy then, spent a lot of time then in the Inner and Outer Clyde Submarine Exercise areas. Yachts were always a pretty much undetectable risk unless you got them visual...... I sailed yachts out of the Clyde Submarine Base too.

So do take with a pinch of salt all that bunny about hiding underneath, its not a risk to be taken...or effective against active sonar.

If you ever noticed a green smoke marker near a Skimmer, that was the signal of a simulated torpedo attack. Always a satisfying moment!

 

[capnsensible]

Yes I know but you did not spend any time in Russian boats and father was in the Navy for 20 years.
I do believe the Soviet did sit under freighters and tankers going up the Clyde and used then too escape US boats and the monitoring sytsym getting them , also maybe because you think they did not do this, is maybe because you could not detect them , so how did Soviet boats get into he Clyde past that wonderful system on the sea bed , and also old boots has just given you an experience of it happening.
And dude Don't knock Mr Clancy, although he did not write about the Clyde to my Knoweldge

Your Dad was in the Russian Navy? Wow.

The rest though is, er, bootmenders and BOB account is of RN vessels.

Sorry to disappoint.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Yes I know but you did not spend any time in Russian boats and father was in the Navy for 20 years.
I do believe the Soviet did sit under freighters and tankers going up the Clyde and used then too escape US boats and the monitoring sytsym getting them , also maybe because you think they did not do this, is maybe because you could not detect them , so how did Soviet boats get into he Clyde past that wonderful system on the sea bed , and also old boots has just given you an experience of it happening.
And dude Don't knock Mr Clancy, although he did not write about the Clyde to my Knoweldge

. Please keep this up.

 

[scottie]

I wonder about how these things get so distorted sometimes.

HC Deb 21 July 1988 vol 137 c723W 723W
§Mr. Foulkes To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what were the exact circumstances, including time and location, of the collision between the Drum and HMS Otus; what damage was sustained by both vessels; what injuries were sustained by anyone involved; what kind of inquiry he has instituted into the incident; and if he will make a statement.
§Mr. Ian Stewart At 02.45 on 16 July 1988 a collision occurred about 7 nautical miles south of the Mull of Kintyre light between the masts of the submarine, HMS Otus, and the yacht Drum. HMS Otus surfaced immediately after the collision. Drum's outer skin was punctured and she also suffered some damage to her guard rails and rigging, hut she was able to continue her passage without assistance. HMS Otus's masts were damaged. No one was injured in the collision. A formal naval board of inquiry is currently under way.
Mr. O'Neill To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if the collision between HMS Otus and the yacht Drum occurred in lanes designated for naval use.
§Mr. Ian Stewart The collision occurred in a designated submarine exercise area which is marked as such on Admiralty charts.


So there you have it SM Otus surfaced straight away. There was no MOD denial and regarding serial numbers of a piece of periscope being recovered by Drums crew, la la land.

Just shows how the legend evolves as the memories dim
Thank for the ref

 

[A1Sailor]

Russian hunter killer submarines are well know over the last 40 years to sit under freighters to hid from detection to maneuver around the Clyde estuary awaiting the SSBNS which are departing Faslane to follow them, common practice.
i bet these are not sticking to exercise areas.
Many unreported fishing vessels getting nets snacked and having to cut them free quickly or losing then completely


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...aval-base-to-eavesdrop-on-nuclear-submarines/

The SSBNs, if armed, depart from Coulport - common practice. If they are departing from Faslane and exiting the Clyde the Russians are following red herrings.

 

[scottie]

I had one under my yacht in the FOC, way back in the late 1980s. There was an exercise going on with frigates and helicopters searching for the submarine, a lot of pings being heard through the GRP hull. We were off Aran's east coast, south of the Holy Island on passage to clear the bottom of Arran and head for the Mull of Kintyre. It was a sail training yacht and the only place that the crew were allowed to smoke was on the aft rail. Earlier in the day we had seen a small periscope, for want of a better term, pop up and down from time to time, this looked from a distance like thin rod with a tin can on top. A shout went up from the smokers and right behind us, 5 to 10 m, was a periscope, not the rod with tin can on top but a big tube, estimated about a foot or two in diameter, sort of dome top with bits and what was clearly a double lens, binocular style, behind a cover (if my memory is serving me well). I guess we were only doing a few knots, 5 at the most.

Off our port bow, down near Ailsa Craig there was a frigate that started whining as its stern dug in and it accelerated towards us at was was a colossal speed. The frigate passed ahead and turned a full 360 round us with the pings in the hull now quite loud. The frigate proceeded to search up and down a narrow corridor getting further away from us. About 30 minutes later yellow smoke appeared on the surface in the direction that the frigate had originally come from and a helicopter headed over the smoke and lowered, I assume, a sonar device into the water.

The 1980s were fascinating in the Clyde area, always lots going on, with many boats sailing up and the Clyde. About an hour after the start of a feeder race for the Tomatin Series (as it was then), in light airs, the fleet was spread about but still clustered, a diesel submarine turned up and proceeded to weave its way through the fleet. Today, you don't see much, the occasional boomer, the Yanks are gone, the Hunter Killers I think have moved south and the diesel submarines are probably all scrapped now.

Yes it was an interesting experience as you say dark night little if any wind the escorting ribs and police boat just came along side and grasped the shrouds and pulled you out of the way no fuss very low key .
Different now or at least it was last year various subs up and down the Clyde including a nice almost Pink Dutch boat all well escorted and if you got too close a definitely hostile visit and on your way !

 

[capnsensible]

Just shows how the legend evolves as the memories dim
Thank for the ref

:encouragement:

 

[moomba]

The SSBNs, if armed, depart from Coulport - common practice. If they are departing from Faslane and exiting the Clyde the Russians are following red herrings.

Coulport holds the missiles that is why all the roundabouts in the area have lanes through then so the large trucks carrying the war heads can go straight through and not having to negotiate the roundabouts

 

[A1Sailor]

Coulport holds the missiles that is why all the roundabouts in the area have lanes through then so the large trucks carrying the war heads can go straight through and not having to negotiate the roundabouts

Yup - so if they are leaving Faslane there's no point in the Ruskies following them. Just because it's in The Herald doesn't mean it's accurate!

 

[moomba]

. Please keep this up.

What we I know my father was on the herring boats out of the Clyde then joined the Navy as a sonar.radio opertor, my brother then joined the fishing fleet this time for prawns , and through the fleet there was always rumors and incidents of nets and boats being dragged, and unusual large sonar blips on their fish finders, My brother eats and shit submarines to the point you could call him a nerd , tried the navy with the intent of joining the Submariners , but was rejected because of asthma, Uncle had a boat n the West coast of Scotland for over 4o years and I remember the Large Dunoon base with the American fleet ,
His love affair for submarines never ended and now is Freelance ROV pilot who is headhunted all around the world for specific jobs (based in Australia now) had a few jobs under the Secrets Act , picking up the Navies new missiles that they fire of the coast of the UK
It was though and never proven that the Russians would come in under tankers to mask their cavitations , and why not makes sense, the Soviet commanders were not under the same rules as the Nato boats , and could be very reckless ,like using the Crazy Ivan technique. but I must have read all this in the Clancy Novels so I bow to your superior Knowledge of the fishing fleet , the RN and Soviet techniques in the North Atlantic.
Me I just rabiting

 

[moomba]

Yup - so if they are leaving Faslane there's no point in the Ruskies following them. Just because it's in The Herald doesn't mean it's accurate!

The boats are loaded in Faslane from Coulport which the trucks bring the missiles down , this is common knowledge , and is why the Russians have a few ICBMS pointed at the base.
All boomers are tried to be followed from both sides , this is the get first strike capabilities or retaliation dismissed from the equation as the UK nuclear arsenal is on these boats and if war broke out the Russians would try to sink then imedialty thefore nullifiyng our threat

 

[mainsail1]

Some things are best left unsaid for reasons that are obvious to some on here but not to others.

 

[moomba]

Some things are best left unsaid for reasons that are obvious to some on here but not to others.

Yes agreed :encouragement:

 

[capnsensible]

Some things are best left unsaid for reasons that are obvious to some on here but not to others.

Do you think that something has been said on this thread that isnt clearly in the Public Domain? Wow.....

 

[JumbleDuck]

So there you have it SM Otus surfaced straight away. There was no MOD denial and regarding serial numbers of a piece of periscope being recovered by Drums crew, la la land.

The two reports are perfectly consistent. The MoD may well have denied things until proof was given, a submarine surfacing at 02:45 might well have been invisible to a yacht and a "damaged" mast might well include a bit being broken off.

It took from April until September 2015 for the MoD to admit that one of its submarines had pulled the Karen backwards by her nets for some distance:

MoD minister Penny Mordaunt said: “The Royal Navy has now confirmed that a UK submarine was, in fact, responsible for snagging the Karen’s nets. The incident, the delay in identifying and addressing the events on that day, and their consequences are deeply regretted.​

 

[capnsensible]

The two reports are perfectly consistent. The MoD may well have denied things until proof was given, a submarine surfacing at 02:45 might well have been invisible to a yacht and a "damaged" mast might well include a bit being broken off.

Do you list under your hobbies 'straw clutcher'?

 

[NormanS]

Surely by now we all know that submarines can do no wrong. It was entirely the fault of the Isle of Skye, for being in the way of the Astute.