Twistle Rig vs. Poles out headsail?

[Tim Good]

Has anyone had he chance to compare a twistle rig to a main and poles out headsail running downwind? I mean compared to performance and ease of handling?

I have a furling main and two headsails. We pole out our yankee and there is no doubt, it works really well. We can carry the poles out headsail through to 120 no problem and it's easy to fuel away.

We also have two yankees and a twistle rig. It never used it. With a cross to the Canaries in the cards in the coming weeks, is it worth the hassle of deploying it? Will it be substantially easier to handle, will rolling be reduced and will it perform better?

I did meet someone recently who said he had two headsails and it rolled awfully but I did realise he attached his poles to his mast and not together floating in front of the mast. I was under the impression this was a key feature of the twistle setup?

 

[macd]

Once set up, the Twistle rig is superb on long passages. Makes good speed with little stress (on the crew, but also the rig.) Not the least of its benefits is the ease of reducing sail without leaving the cockpit, even by just one person -- a huge bonus when squalls are about. Rolling is very much reduced: the boat will still roll when made to by a wave, but won't keep on doing so, which is the bane of ocean downwind passages. My first long passage under Twistle was from half a day off Ayamonte to the Canaries; then onwards to the Cape Verdes and the Antilles. Loved it.

After that eperience, I came to the view that I'd never use a mainsail again on downwind Trades sailing.

The clew needs to be quite high (but perhaps not so high you can't reach it without standing on the pulpit): your yankees may work, or may need tweaking. Put thought into rigging the downhaul (for the 'hinge'). People seem to struggle to make the rig work if it's too far aft. Plenty of videos and advice on-line, which are well worth studying.

 

[Tim Good]

I presume that if he wind comes round onto the beam then and you want to continue to use the headsail then I'd have to De rig it all and drop the 2nd headsail? I'd have to be quite sure we had at least a few days of downwind sailing to make it worth while.

 

[macd]

You certainly wouldn't want to put it up for a shortish sail. It works well about 60 degrees either side of dead downwind, and a little more precariously some way beyond that. It's flown somewhat like a symmetrical, with the two sails rotating around the forestay and sheets adjusted to suit.

If you need a more conventional rig for a while, you can allow one headsail to lie on the other, having taken the lazy sheet to the other side. Works well enough as a 'single' jib.

 

[Tim Good]

You certainly wouldn't want to put it up for a shortish sail. It works well about 60 degrees either side of dead downwind, and a little more precariously some way beyond that. It's flown somewhat like a symmetrical, with the two sails rotating around the forestay and sheets adjusted to suit.

If you need a more conventional rig for a while, you can allow one headsail to lie on the other, having taken the lazy sheet to the other side. Works well enough as a 'single' jib.

Yeah I wondered that. I suppose they would chafe on each other if used like that for any length of time though?

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Yeah I wondered that. I suppose they would chafe on each other if used like that for any length of time though?

Not really, the original Freedom 40 sails were like that and lasted for years and years. There's not much movement.

 

[macd]

Yeah I wondered that. I suppose they would chafe on each other if used like that for any length of time though?

Not particularly, but it's not something you'd do for days on end, anyway, since it doesn't make for a particularly efficient sail. In normal use, one of the big plusses of the Twistle Rig is the very low levels of chafe, bearing in mind it might be deployed for weeks on end.

Didn't mention that the rig (or any similar rig, I imagine) gives the steering a really easy time. Front wheel drive is good downwind :encouragement:

 

[dunedin]

If you already have the thistle rig I would definitely aim to give it a try on the Canaries run.
Just done it with main and poled out genoa and worked ok, but quite a lot of chafe on mainsail against rig if done for a long time, and when wind angle around 165 or so the jib worked less well due to mainsail blanking it.
Five days of wind behind was ideal (except for the sudden 180 degree windshift and 23 knot gust dead on the nose for 15 minutes, out of a clear night sky over 80 miles from nearest land, Africa - odd!)

 

[Tim Good]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm going to try and rig it today whilst its calm in the marina. I can't figure out the purpose of the block and outhaul on the end of the poles? Why not just clip the pole directly to the sheet? This is how i pole out my headsail when goose winging so I'm unsure why the block and outhaul is required? Here are a couple of photos the owner of the boat made back in 1996 when the boat was commissioned.

 

[Neil_Y]

We used the twin headsails with one sheeted through the pole end and the other sheeted through a snatch block on the boom end.

They rolled up together easily and if the wind changed direction one sail would simply sit inside the other until we were on a close reach on either tack. The two sheets were led back to the main sheet winches and it was simply a case of letting off a few metres and then rolling some sail. Worked a treat for much of the crossings East and West going.

I never tried the twissel, partly as it required another pole which we didn't have, and the boom end sheet worked fine.

 

[capnsensible]

We used the twin headsails with one sheeted through the pole end and the other sheeted through a snatch block on the boom end.

They rolled up together easily and if the wind changed direction one sail would simply sit inside the other until we were on a close reach on either tack. The two sheets were led back to the main sheet winches and it was simply a case of letting off a few metres and then rolling some sail. Worked a treat for much of the crossings East and West going.

I never tried the twissel, partly as it required another pole which we didn't have, and the boom end sheet worked fine.

Thats the rig I use on my Moody, except one of the headsails is hanked onto a removable inner forestay. Works a treat and the hydrovane is easy to get steering when sailing like that. :encouragement:

 

[Tim Good]

Thats the rig I use on my Moody, except one of the headsails is hanked onto a removable inner forestay. Works a treat and the hydrovane is easy to get steering when sailing like that. :encouragement:

Did the end of your poles clip directly to the sheets or have a block outhaul system on the end?

 

[capnsensible]

Did the end of your poles clip directly to the sheets or have a block outhaul system on the end?

The spinnaker pole is braced with uphaul, guy and downhaul with the sheet through the pole end. we bought an old fashioned bag of spuds somewhere and i cut some of that up, wrapped and sewed it to the sheet to stop chafe.

The boom was easy using topping lift, mainsheet and a guy. As Niel mentioned, the sheet for the other sail goes through a block attatched to the end of the boom. Takes ten minutes to rig with practice.

 

[Neil_Y]

It's a great set up especially if you have twin luff grooves in the roller foil, then head sails roll together or can sit on each other if you end up reaching or even if you need to go upwind.

Chafing was an issue until we realised having the sheet pulled really tight against the pole downhaul helped be limiting any movement which comes from the small amount of stretch in the sheets.

This was us hoofing along at over 7knts mid atlantic when we bumped into a Dutch yacht.

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[KellysEye]

We had a Twistle rig with SS steel rod that had fittings you clip the poles on to, our fitting was made by marine fabricator there are curved pieces welded to the rod then a bar for clpping the pole on. It flies free and cuts the rolling noticably, poles attached to the must push the mast one way then the opposite so rolling is much worse. The pictures of most Twistle rigs have crossed poles which risks damage.

 

[KellysEye]

One thing I forgot in my post is the fitting needs to handle an uphaul and downhaul I used the spinnaker halyard for the uphaul and line led back to the cockpit for the downhaul, the fitting had SS plate with a ring at the end for attaching them with clips.

 

[zoidberg]

We had a Twistle rig with SS steel rod that had fittings you clip the poles on to

A photo or two would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[KellysEye]

I have finally found the pictures of the fitting that holds the poles for a Twistle rig, already sent once, if you wold like to see them please PM me your email address.

 

[Tim Good]

I have finally found the pictures of the fitting that holds the poles for a Twistle rig, already sent once, if you wold like to see them please PM me your email address.

Yep I got it thanks :encouragement:

Unfortunately I didn't get to rig mine for the Lisbon > Canaries crossing. Poled out yankee pushed us along nicely at 6.5kts the whole way but I do wonder if the Twistle setup would have been less rolly?

 

[macd]

I do wonder if the Twistle setup would have been less rolly?

It probably would, as already suggested. That's one of its attractions.