Twisted gennaker halyard

[Close hauled]

We are having problems with our 2:1 gennaker halyard, which has a standing end fixed to the mast just above the genoa sheave.

When hoisting the sail the standing end and running end of the halyard slowly twists together making it impossible to hoist to full height. We've taken the halyard our of the mast ( using a messenger) and run it through so that there are no twists but as soon as we hoist back come the twists. The swivel that attaches to the head of the sail just slowly revolves as we hoist so that 8 or more twists are not uncommon. I hoped that giving it a good pull would untwist it but all that happens is that is that it gets stuck and has an embarrassing reluctance to come down again.

I've read that coiling the halyard introduces twists and some winches can also do the same.

We've worked out some temporary solutions but what should be an easy hoist is turning out to be a real pain!

Anyone else got this problem and any advice would be appreciated.

 

[LadyInBed]

Have you tried it without the swivel?
Maybe switch to dyneema?

 

[Close hauled]

Have you tried it without the swivel?
Maybe switch to dyneema?

The gennaker has a Dynema luff and is on a Facnor furle. The halyard doesn't seem twisted

 

[Woodlouse]

Do you launch the sail from coiled down on the deck or flaked down? And how free is the swivel to rotate?

 

[DJE]

Have you tried it without the swivel?
Maybe switch to dyneema?

Or maybe move the swivel to the dead end of the halyard where it is fixed to the mast.

 

[Bobc]

Try taking the rope out and stretching it (in a straight line along the pontoon, tie one end to something solid then winch like buggery). If that doesn't work, get a new one.

 

[Close hauled]

Thanks, tried that and it still is twisted.

I'll get a new halyard!

 

[ectimmer]

We have the same kind of problem with the stayless jij on a 2:1 halyard that broke twice near the dead-end with melting marks I think due to a kink.
Pedro did the replacement solve the problem?

 

[penfold]

Is there a swivel where the standing part of the halyard fastens to the mast? Might be worth a go.

 

[Daydream believer]

Some ropes are more prone to twisting. As an example the 2:1 jib sheets on my squib kept twisting. When we borrowed the sheets from another squib the problem went away. I know this is nothing like a halyard, but looking at the ropes we could not see any difference. However, it might have been something to do with the relationship between core & outer covering. In any event I would suggest speaking to Marlow or English Braids about the problem & asking for advice re the correct halyard first.
Then I would look at the swivel. Some rotate freely under load & some do not. It may be a question of £,s but perhaps a ballraced swivel might help ( assuming available in the size you want)

 

[dom]

We have the same kind of problem with the stayless jij on a 2:1 halyard that broke twice near the dead-end with melting marks I think due to a kink.
Pedro did the replacement solve the problem?

Remember this thread is 7-years old and Pedro hasn’t posted since February 2016!

 

[Daydream believer]

Remember this thread is 7-years old and Pedro hasn’t posted since February 2016!

Thanks for pointing that out. In some ways it would be useful if old posts were deleted, because I for one often miss that point & get caught out. I know others do as well. If one needs the info it is often better to re create the subject & get more up to date info anyway.

 

[ectimmer]

Is there a swivel where the standing part of the halyard fastens to the mast? Might be worth a go.

No, but it is something that came to my mind too, didn’t find it on in internet as a solution so far

 

[ectimmer]

Some ropes are more prone to twisting. As an example the 2:1 jib sheets on my squib kept twisting. When we borrowed the sheets from another squib the problem went away. I know this is nothing like a halyard, but looking at the ropes we could not see any difference. However, it might have been something to do with the relationship between core & outer covering. In any event I would suggest speaking to Marlow or English Braids about the problem & asking for advice re the correct halyard first.
Then I would look at the swivel. Some rotate freely under load & some do not. It may be a question of £,s but perhaps a ballraced swivel might help ( assuming available in the size you want)

Yes its a swivel belonging to the Karver system I have. A call to Marlow or Liros will be my next action

 

[dom]

We have the same kind of problem with the stayless jij on a 2:1 halyard that broke twice near the dead-end with melting marks I think due to a kink.
Pedro did the replacement solve the problem?

You will need to investigate the cause of melting -- very strange in such an application -- but one often sees twists in such systems. You will almost certainly need a new suitably specified halyard.

A rope's inherent tendency to turn under load is termed its torque factor. This is in turn dependent on the rope construction, applied loads, but also on its previous working conditions. Perhaps a sticky upper swivel imparted big twist forces at some point, perhaps the rope wasn't never torque stable?

Rope construction and dynamics differ, so best ask a manufacturer to recommend one based upon your intended reeving, loads, length, etc., to ensure the required level of stability.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

There's a brand that looks like this that now makes my heart sink when I get on a boat equipped with it. Even simple stuff like main halyards need real care with twists to avoid kinks appearing at sheaves. I'm fairly sure that it untwists with tension much more than anything else I've used too. So if this is what you've got then you have my sympathy.