Twin screw boat handling tips

[Murv]

Quick background: New to boating, 3 Years experience with single engine outdrive powered 22' boat. Very recently bought an upgrade, twin diesel on shafts 42.5' LOA.


All is going extremely well with the new (to me) twin screw, and I haven't crashed it...yet

I don't have any problems berthing it, occasionally come in a bit fast if I'm angled too much across the tide (ferry gliding) or, more usually, take forever to get there.
But, it's all experience and I'm learning as I go.

What I'm not so happy with is leaving the pontoon.
I'm on a linear berth with a moderately fast tide run and although I've not had any issues so far, it never feels as controlled as I would like.
If we're facing into the tide, I'll put the rudders full to port (we're on the outside line so rudders towards the pontoon) and briefly knock the port engine in and out of gear to gently crab out into the tide. Once out, I can straighten the steering, engage the other engine and off we go. (huge thanks to "no regrets" for this tip I read in an old thread, it's brilliant!!)
This generally works well, unless the wind is pushing us back on in which case I usually have to resort to the bow thruster.
If we're backing into the tide, it's usually a case of doing the same in/out of gear in reverse on the port engine. Again, this works reasonably well until the wind starts getting involved.

Any tips? I did wonder if I should be engaging opposing engines/drive direction to forcibly (but gently!) push the boat off but am concerned about undue strain being put on fender lines/cleats etc.

An easy way would be to spring off with lines, but with such a heavy boat, I'd rather SWMBO didn't have to faff around with that and I'm not convinced there's really a need unless the wind is very strong?

Just a quick point to add.... the bow thruster.
Yes, I have one. Yes, it's quite powerful, yes, it makes life very easy and, no, I wouldn't drive my car without the power steering engaged etc etc
However, as I'm so new to this, I really want to learn without it. Once reasonably proficient then, yes, I will use it! But I want the skills under my belt first.
It also gives me a backup option, if things aren't going so well I can grab the joystick switch and untangle a mess before it starts. If I start off using it, I'll only have my skill set to fall back on which just isn't there yet!

 

[beebok]

spring off from the bow,my wife handles this with no problems,the line will go slack then of you go.
the rudders are too small to be of any use.

 

[rafiki_]

I don't bother with any rudder in the marina, just use the engines. I moor stbd side on, but use the same procedure either side. Crew lets go the warps, calls out (as I can't see her from the fly), I apply a touch of port thruster, a touch of port engine ahead. This takes us off the pontoon. I straighten with a touch of std ahead. Depending on wind, then touch of either ahead. Crew calls out that I have cleared the pontoon finger, then sharp port to exit.
I am setting up a rear view camera, so that I will be able to can see the pontoon. This will help with mooring and casting off.

 

[chrishelen]

I drove a twin screw passenger boat for a few years, I was told to use one hand on the controls and put the other in my pocket, forget about the rudders leave them midships for manoeuvres. A few days practice and you will be fine.

 

[oldgit]

Simply not enough flow of water past the the rudder blades from the props to materially affect boat direction.As opposed to o*******s.
Normally leave rudders dead ahead.

 

[boatingdave]

All of the above are good so I'll not repeat other than to re-iterate, ignore the rudders, just keep them ahead and don't be hurried if circumstances allow and conversely don't be afraid to be quick as sometimes you need to to get out of the stream. We also came up through the ranks, a single screw (shaft) that I learnt to manoeuvre using prop walk , then went on to a twin with outdrives then twin shaft (none with 'girlie buttons') then on to one with bow a stern thruster! You are absolutely doing it the right way, learn to manoeuvre without reliance on the girlie buttons, its surprising how many folk cant get off a mooring with a smaller boat (ours is a similar size to yours) without almost burning out the thruster motors . best of luck with the new tub - sounds exciting!

 

[Sailorsam101]

I have twin out-drives but i don't touch the wheel also. To get the bow pointing where i want it i use opposite throttles for just a few seconds or so.

It's all very slowly...in gear..our of gear...see what happens..in gear..out of gear..again see what happens.

I'm getting the hang of it now myself.

 

[Murv]

Thanks all

I should really have made it a bit clearer where the mooring is, it's in a tidal river, the pontoon is linear to the flow of water (one way or the other) so there is always tide flow to help. Unless, of course, it's slack water then I just f̶l̶u̶f̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ skillfully use the wind/lines as appropriate.

So, with a strong tide flow on the stern, opposite throttles to push the stern out and then back out into the flow? As opposed to briefly in and out of gear on the opposing engine in reverse to tweak it out? (works smoothly but is reliant on no wind pushing me back in)
Or, if there is a really strong wind pushing me back onto the pontoon, then spring it off with lines or will the opposite throttle trick suffice?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't bother with any rudder in the marina, just use the engines. I moor stbd side on, but use the same procedure either side. Crew lets go the warps, calls out (as I can't see her from the fly), I apply a touch of port thruster, a touch of port engine ahead. This takes us off the pontoon. I straighten with a touch of std ahead. Depending on wind, then touch of either ahead. Crew calls out that I have cleared the pontoon finger, then sharp port to exit.
I am setting up a rear view camera, so that I will be able to can see the pontoon. This will help with mooring and casting off.

I drove a twin screw passenger boat for a few years, I was told to use one hand on the controls and put the other in my pocket, forget about the rudders leave them midships for manoeuvres. A few days practice and you will be fine.

A big plus to all the above. Lots of good advice.

When I'm examining people for their power boat tickets, my heart sinks when I see them frantically putting the wheel over for slow speed manoeuvres. At slow speed its very much one hand in your pocket and one hand on the levers. (One hand on the levers as its much easier not to get confused and encourages you to use a little bit of lever at a time.)

Some boats will give you four knots on tickover so its a question of little nudges and back into neutral straight away.

Don't be scared of using a spring, the forces aren't too much using the above techniques.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thanks all

I should really have made it a bit clearer where the mooring is, it's in a tidal river, the pontoon is linear to the flow of water (one way or the other) so there is always tide flow to help.Unless, of course, it's slack water then I just f̶l̶u̶f̶f̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ skillfully use the wind/lines as appropriate.

So, with a strong tide flow on the stern, opposite throttles to push the stern out and then back out into the flow? As opposed to briefly in and out of gear on the opposing engine in reverse to tweak it out? (works smoothly but is reliant on no wind pushing me back in)
Or, if there is a really strong wind pushing me back onto the pontoon, then spring it off with lines or will the opposite throttle trick suffice?

Whichever works best for the conditions. Sometimes there's more than one way to do it, but you need to have other tricks up your sleeve if the first one doesn't work. After a while you will get a feel for which technique to use. As in - "Its a really strong side wind today so I think we will need to use a spring to get her off the pontoon."

 

[Murv]

Excellent, thanks

I will certainly try opposite throttles next time then, once the stern is out then the tide flow is usually strong enough to overcome any wind.
It's just that pesky crosswind that gently picks up and pushes me back in that had me reaching for the thruster!


I have to say I'm really enjoying the extra control that comes with the twin engines, just need to master the final points of it, but I have surprised myself with what can be achieved.

 

[BruceK]

I have a river berth exactly like yours and in a very fast current when at full spate ~7knts on a big tide.

To go out stern first against the current when berthed starboard on to the pontoon I bump her in reverse on the starboard engine. Once the stern starts coming out you have to be quick to get port into reverse and hold her there or the current will swing the boat out 90 degrees and drive you into the boat in front. For me there is no way round it and you simply have to be quick about it and often not shy on the throttles either. If the stern does get past 20 degrees into the current it's too late to get out and hard on the throttle reverse on starboard and light on the throttle forward on port will see me swing a full 180 bow into the current but coming parallel to the boat in front, bow into the current before putting both engines into forward to hold her. It's an easy enough manoeuvre but one I desperately avoid. Generally speaking though I avoid launching when the tide is in full swing unless the bow is into the current. Then it's the one handed approach as said above. Just gently bump her out on the opposite engine to the turn until the bow is facing out before butting the second engine in gear. When the wind is blowing me on to the pontoon I go out stern first as above on starboard (outdrives) just steering it like you would a car until the stern is far enough off to centre the wheel and revert to throttle only. Not sure how that would work with shafts and rudders though. When trying to berth when the wind is pushing me off the pontoon, I picked up a handy tip here from the forum of getting the centre cleat on and leaving the engine in gear and the boat will pull itself onto the pontoon. I slight turn away from the pontoon helps keep the stern in or just use the engine closest to the pontoon.

But I agree. Coming off a pontoon in a strong tidal flow in a river can sometimes be awkward. Getting on by ferrying more than makes up for it though.

 

[Murv]

Great explanation, thank you! I'm definitely on the right lines then, I just need to give the boat a bit more encouragement when the wind is trying to play.
I can't even imagine a 7knot tide run!! I guess it's probably in the region of 2-4 knots where I am so a lot easier to contend with.

 

[BruceK]

Oh, I almost forgot. Have a look at the current flow around the pontoon and get to know it. Even though mine lies parallel to the current the way the water slaloms through and under the floats will often aid you in getting off. There is a beamy yacht behind me which causes the water to swirl under the pontoon where it hits a float and then out 90 degrees for a yard or so on an outgoing tide. Getting the stern on to that will help push it off the pontoon, an aid to getting off, a hindrance to getting on.

 

[BruceK]

Great explanation, thank you! I'm definitely on the right lines then, I just need to give the boat a bit more encouragement when the wind is trying to play.
I can't even imagine a 7knot tide run!! I guess it's probably in the region of 2-4 knots where I am so a lot easier to contend with.

Yes, it can be fun. The whole of a 6 up to 8.5 m tide from Afon Conwy has to squeeze under the castle bridge 200 yards from me to make it into the estuary. It can get going something quick on an out going tide. less severe on an incoming tide.

 

[omega2]

https://youtu.be/815vHQhYz0Y?t=329

Slowly slowly catchee monkey, if that fails you can borrow Steve, he is good at "catching" One more thing we ALL get out of shape on occasion.

 

[Murv]

Oh, I almost forgot. Have a look at the current flow around the pontoon and get to know it. Even though mine lies parallel to the current the way the water slaloms through and under the floats will often aid you in getting off. There is a beamy yacht behind me which causes the water to swirl under the pontoon where it hits a float and then out 90 degrees for a yard or so on an outgoing tide. Getting the stern on to that will help push it off the pontoon, an aid to getting off, a hindrance to getting on.

Good point. The flow seems to be fairly constant around the floats where we are although I know what you mean. There is an interesting flow pattern off of the club fuel pontoon. Last time I had the small boat moored there, it was being held directly off of the pontoon, both lines slack, despite the water on the surface boiling past fairly rapidly. Quite odd to see!

https://youtu.be/815vHQhYz0Y?t=329

Slowly slowly catchee monkey, if that fails you can borrow Steve, he is good at "catching" One more thing we ALL get out of shape on occasion.

That is very flash!
I know it's all going to go very wrong on occasions, and I know I'm going to bump somebody at some point. Just trying to minimise the risk really and get as proficient as I can be with such little experience.

 

[BruceK]

rehearse it in your head each time before committing helps. The following simulator isn't great, but it helped ingrain which throttle to use when etc so when I do get into a flap I'm not compounding the issue by bumping the wrong throttle at the wrong time. And BTW. You wont catch me in a marina by choice. I understand my river pontoon, I still dread having to mince about in marinas.

http://theboatdocker.com/

 

[Murv]

I'm very much hoping that's just a particularly evil handling boat rather than an indication of what a marina will be like!
There's a club trip coming up to a marina at the end of the Month, I think I'd best get a bit more slack water handling practice in as well

 

[BruceK]

go gently on the wind settings, they're vicious. That boat handles a dream compared to mine, who is a right recalcitrant bish without the benefit of any thrusters to tame her high spirit.