Turkey, grey water tanks here we go again

[sailaboutvic]

Boats cruising in Turkish waters could face fines and even impounding if they are spotted dumping grey water

Turkey motorboat

Motorboaters cruising in Turkish waters without grey water tanks run the risk of a fine or having their vessel impounded, it has been confirmed.

Following numerous reports of a crackdown on grey waste dumping off the coast of Turkey, the Cruising Association has contacted the local authorities.

Batur Kumbaki, a Turkish government officer based at Didim Marina, told the organisation that fines of around $1,000 (£590) could be levied against offending boatowners.

Many countries have outlawed the dumping of black water to avoid sewage contamination, but the Turkish ruling means that boats can no longer dispose of washing-up, shower and deck cleaning water directly into the sea.

A spokeswoman for Didim Marina added that the law has been in force for a year, but prosecution has only just begun, with spotter planes being sent out to catch offenders.

The Cruising Association also sought clarification on the licence requirements for Turkish waters.

Authorities confirmed that skippers must hold an Amateur Seaman's Certificate or an International Certificate of Competence, or face a similarly large fine.

Read more at http://www.motorboatsmonthly.co.uk/...own-on-grey-water-dumping#i9xS6zPYlq9H9pze.99

www.bluewatersailoircroatia.webs.com

 

[Appleyard]

This is really worrying,especially after hundreds of people have been fined and their boats impounded because of the Blue card scheme.

 

[jimbaerselman]

This is really worrying,especially after hundreds of people have been fined and their boats impounded because of the Blue card scheme.

Hundreds?

Fined, and their boats impounded?

Usually, if you pay a fine, your boat is not impounded.

Just in case anyone missed it, discharging to cause visible pollution has been a finable offence in Turkey since at least 1984. Flotilla and charter advice since then has been "Don't create bubbles on the water - that can be defined as pollution. So don't shower on deck using soap, and if you have to discharge washing up water or shower water, do so discreetly, and preferably after dark"

 

[Appleyard]

Yes Hundreds.. at least according to the doomongers. funnily enough I have not met anyone who has been "done"

 

[akyaka]

Yes Hundreds.. at least according to the doomongers. funnily enough I have not met anyone who has been "done"

+1

It is also based on an interpretation by one official in one location and as we all know in this part of the world every official is a law unto himself.How responsible organisations such as CA can apparently make such definitive statements relative to a wholed country based on such flimsy evidence does makes me wonder .As far as I am aware the law relating to owner skippers licences has not changed for some time, and the requirement still is to have the qualifications required by the country of your boats registration, which in the case of the UK is none. I agree its better to have something if challenged but how often is that.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Its a real shame , Turkey is a wonderfully cruising ground and laws like this just keep people away or at less make people think twice before going ,
not discharging grey water into the sea is almost impossible for most boat owners , the fact is if you have a 400lts water capacity you would need another tank of the same quantity so not to discharge into the sea , I for one haven't got the room for a tank that big and I sure most haven't.
not being able to shower on deck is just ridiculous soap or no soap your still discharged grey water .
who come up with these laws .?

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs

 

[Marsupial]

aykaka, you're right the law hasn't changed but the Law in Turkey is that if you want a cruising log you have a boat license, they will accept an ICC in the case of a UK skipper.

To my certain knowledge Datcha, Fethiye and Kas all require it, don't know about anywhere else except that I spent a few days chilling out in the Letoonia Resort Hotel in May of this year and they wanted sight of my ICC before they would let me take a dinghy out, citing Turkish Maritime Law.

The grey water situation hasn't changed for many years, when we arrived in Kas we told in no uncertain terms that grey water into the sea and washing the boat with detergent is forbidden. And yes the coastguard washed down in dreft or some other bubbly detergent - so its do as I say not as I do, no change there.

 

[Dig]

We arrived a few days ago after the winter our boat is so dirty we began to wash it down only to be stopped half way and told cleaning agents can't be used ,so how the hell do clean all this dirt off?pressure wash won't do it ,tried it.

 

[TRUNDLETRUC]

With all this fuss about grey water tanks - Are there any new boats supplied with them and has anyone actually fitted one? If so how big is it? Is it just a "token" one?
I have never read a boat test in a magazine that mentions one.

 

[vyv_cox]

How responsible organisations such as CA can apparently make such definitive statements relative to a wholed country based on such flimsy evidence does makes me wonder ..

The quote above is not from the Cruising Association, it is from a magazine. I have yet to see any irresponsible statements on any subject from the CA.

 

[vyv_cox]

Double post. Dodgy wifi here.

 

[akyaka]

I did say apparently Vyv and I've not seen any denials of what is emphatically printed in this link

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/536735/sailors-in-turkey-now-face-fines

 

[macd]

I did say apparently Vyv and I've not seen any denials of what is emphatically printed in this link

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/536735/sailors-in-turkey-now-face-fines

I'd imagine that PBO story is a gross misrepresentation of the CA's position. It's clearly sloppy tosh, anyway: "Sailors in Turkey now face fines" is a useful as saying cars now face road tax: both are true, but have been true for a long time...so what? JimB said as much off his own back in post #3, but I'd welcome a comment on the part of the CA.

 

[pcatterall]

All very worrying as we are moving in the turkey direction and have no black or grey tanks fitted.
I am considering fitting 'nominal' tanks just to satisfy the regulation. Are there minimum sizes for these tanks and do they have to have facillities to pump out?
There would seem to be more efficient ways of disposing of the ( relativly small amount of solid waste) rather than mixing it with loads of water and having to store the lot prior to disposal but do the authorities accept alternatives?

 

[TRUNDLETRUC]

In post 9 I asked three questions
1/ do any new boats have grey tanks?
2/ has anyone fitted one?
3/ how big?
This is the second time in this forum I have asked this question with no response at all.
I am thinking this whole thing is a conspiracy to keep boats away from Turkey!
Are the regulations just for super yachts?

 

[NornaBiron]

In post 9 I asked three questions
1/ do any new boats have grey tanks?
2/ has anyone fitted one?
3/ how big?
This is the second time in this forum I have asked this question with no response at all.
I am thinking this whole thing is a conspiracy to keep boats away from Turkey!
Are the regulations just for super yachts?

We have a grey tank, it was originally an extra water tank but changed use the first time she went to sea and water wouldn't drain from the sinks. The regulations apply to all boats, private, commercial, big and small. Apparently (don't shoot the messenger) if you don't have a grey tank you are expected to put your grey waste into your black holding tank and pump out when necessary.

 

[rivonia]

Here's another one for you all. Do not have any torn/damaged Turkish curtesy flag flying. It may result in a €200.00 fine minimum.

 

[satsuma]

In post 9 I asked three questions
1/ do any new boats have grey tanks?
2/ has anyone fitted one?
3/ how big?
This is the second time in this forum I have asked this question with no response at all.
I am thinking this whole thing is a conspiracy to keep boats away from Turkey!
Are the regulations just for super yachts?

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I am pretty sure anyone can have tanks fitted to their boat, space providing of course, and sizes limited to the effect on stability etc. I do not personally know of any leisure boats in Turkey that have them fitted under 12m! However I do know that the "regulations" in Turkey are there for good intention if a little ill-conceived. I have recently delivered boats to the Turkish Coast Guard that have no holding tanks whatsoever, but they do have a small chemical treatment plant that allows direct discharge!

The regulations are not there to keep people away from Turkey, and as far as I know the regulations are there for all boats, though rarely if ever enforced (I have never heard of any fines, charges or arrests because of non-compliance). Please understand that in Turkey it is almost a democratic right to choose not to follow regulations! Providing people are "generally" doing what they should, there is often no concern about small transgressions, and interpretation of any regulation is variable to say the least! Indeed I know of one Coast Guard officer, who concluded that the blue card is only for Turkish Flagged vessels so not to worry!

I have a blue card (3 years now), and when getting it, was asked what size is the grey tank - Answered "I don't have a grey tank" Reply, "that's OK". In the 3 years of having the blue card I have never used it. It is suggested that I should have sea water pumped out if need be, just to show something on the card. I am not charged for pumping out so I will take them up on their offer.

In reality, the Turkish Coast Guard spend most of their time eating, drinking Cay, or checking the validity of Turkish flagged boats (mostly to make sure they are not chartering if they don't have a license!). They might stray occassionally onto foreign flagged vessels, especially if they see an attractive, scantily clad woman on board, but unless you are stupid enough to discharge anything inside a marina, bay, or close to shore you are not likely to even be challenged. As already mentioned make sure your courtesy flag is in good condition, neither torn nor too faded!
Some of the Coast Guard actually board foreign vessels just to practice their English so don't be too surprised!

Turkish culture exists and thrives on common courtesy, politeness and respect irrespective of law or regulation, but not the same measures that you may be used to in other countries. Personal space, both physically and through personal questions may seem intrusive to some, but it is normal here to take an interest in people around you! Driving the wrong way up a dual carraigeway is shocking and dangerous but here it is usually the shortest route, so may be overlooked. Red traffic lights are usually observed but if nothing else is coming, why wait! But "turning a blind eye" is not exclusively a Turkish thing, and I know of several rural areas in the UK where drink driving is ignored (or rather, not actively policed) because there is no public transport and the pubs would not survive otherwise.

As far as I can tell, the divergent interpretations in Turkey are no different to what you may experience in Greece with varying enforcement or not of DEKPAs, harbour fees or any other "regulation" that locals choose to ignore.

It is understandable that many people will not be comfortable with a culture that does not strictly observe the rules!, but I find it pleasant, refreshing and attractive to still have a significant level of freedom of choice in life, usually where it does not impact on others!

 

[Carmel2]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I am pretty sure anyone can have tanks fitted to their boat, space providing of course, and sizes limited to the effect on stability etc. I do not personally know of any leisure boats in Turkey that have them fitted under 12m! However I do know that the "regulations" in Turkey are there for good intention if a little ill-conceived. I have recently delivered boats to the Turkish Coast Guard that have no holding tanks whatsoever, but they do have a small chemical treatment plant that allows direct discharge!

The regulations are not there to keep people away from Turkey, and as far as I know the regulations are there for all boats, though rarely if ever enforced (I have never heard of any fines, charges or arrests because of non-compliance). Please understand that in Turkey it is almost a democratic right to choose not to follow regulations! Providing people are "generally" doing what they should, there is often no concern about small transgressions, and interpretation of any regulation is variable to say the least! Indeed I know of one Coast Guard officer, who concluded that the blue card is only for Turkish Flagged vessels so not to worry!

I have a blue card (3 years now), and when getting it, was asked what size is the grey tank - Answered "I don't have a grey tank" Reply, "that's OK". In the 3 years of having the blue card I have never used it. It is suggested that I should have sea water pumped out if need be, just to show something on the card. I am not charged for pumping out so I will take them up on their offer.

In reality, the Turkish Coast Guard spend most of their time eating, drinking Cay, or checking the validity of Turkish flagged boats (mostly to make sure they are not chartering if they don't have a license!). They might stray occassionally onto foreign flagged vessels, especially if they see an attractive, scantily clad woman on board, but unless you are stupid enough to discharge anything inside a marina, bay, or close to shore you are not likely to even be challenged. As already mentioned make sure your courtesy flag is in good condition, neither torn nor too faded!
Some of the Coast Guard actually board foreign vessels just to practice their English so don't be too surprised!

Turkish culture exists and thrives on common courtesy, politeness and respect irrespective of law or regulation, but not the same measures that you may be used to in other countries. Personal space, both physically and through personal questions may seem intrusive to some, but it is normal here to take an interest in people around you! Driving the wrong way up a dual carraigeway is shocking and dangerous but here it is usually the shortest route, so may be overlooked. Red traffic lights are usually observed but if nothing else is coming, why wait! But "turning a blind eye" is not exclusively a Turkish thing, and I know of several rural areas in the UK where drink driving is ignored (or rather, not actively policed) because there is no public transport and the pubs would not survive otherwise.

As far as I can tell, the divergent interpretations in Turkey are no different to what you may experience in Greece with varying enforcement or not of DEKPAs, harbour fees or any other "regulation" that locals choose to ignore.

It is understandable that many people will not be comfortable with a culture that does not strictly observe the rules!, but I find it pleasant, refreshing and attractive to still have a significant level of freedom of choice in life, usually where it does not impact on others!

Thank you, a positive and well written post! Instead of the usual kneejerk reaction cobblers...

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks Satsuma, as stated its good to see a well balanced view.
I would still be interested in finding out just what equipment is expected. there seem to be ( at least) 2 issues, one is having the legally required gear fitted and the other is using it correctly.