Trusting 'professional' marine service organisations

[oGaryo]

There's a few folk I've never met on these forums that I'd implicitely trust to service my engine and sterndrive purely from reading their input and of course, the positive feedback they consistently receive.. Volvo Paul for one.

However, based on what I found at the weekend after servicing my sterndrive, I doubt I'd ever trust a service organisation purely on the basis of their accreditations. What I found this weekend answers why the engine was overheating whilst on the muffs. Not a major issue as it never overheated when in the water but certainly an issue that was very very easily dealt with and I'd have expected to have been, before putting the drive back together.

Far from me to tar all with the same brush but it's certainly put me off trusting any service outfit purely because they've done the courses and have the bit of paper to show they are apparently competent.. key for me is can I trust that they'll apply that learning to my boat? probably not!

anyone else feel the same?

 

[Greg2]

Absolutely! Been there and got the tee shirt unfortunately. Trust in someone who is competent and who can be relied upon to to what you are paying them to do is more important than being a swanky dealer/service agent for whichever brand of engines you have.

I do as much as I can myself, not just to save money but also because I care whether it is done properly and having watched some 'professionals' at work I concluded that there was a better chance of me doing some things properly. Also fed up of being ripped off to be completely honest.

Clearly there are many who do a good job, volvopaul being one, but there some who don't and seem to think that they have a god given right to charge extorniate prices.

 

[Assassin]

Basically it comes down to doing your homework, a little time spent researching a company pays dividends, and can save you vast sums.

Many companies operate legally, ethically, and employ direct labour who operate to manufacturers/owners schedules, specifications, or requests. Other companies sub-contract so labour will be variable, often patchy, and you may not get an engineer conversant with your engine/installation, but, because someone in an office sees he is nearby they are sent to you.

In current times many companies are looking for a quick buck, others are struggling to survive, and many make fraudulent or inflated claims, they claim membership of this, that, or the other recognised organisation when they are not members. Many know little, if anything will be done if they fraudently claim to be a member of a body or organisation they are not members of, at the most they will have to remove that bodies logo from their paperwork, vehicles, etc.

Although this happens in all industries, building (cowboy builders) being the worst, boating is often seen as a money rich activity which is easily targetted by scammers who act as agents. Make a complaint and they suddenly disappear, only to return a few days later under a different guise, similar name, same telephone number, same address, but different company.

 

[lovezoo]

However, based on what I found at the weekend after servicing my sterndrive, I doubt I'd ever trust a service organisation purely on the basis of their accreditations. What I found this weekend answers why the engine was overheating whilst on the muffs.

Come on, do tell - why was it overheating?

BTW when I went to the local Mercruiser dealer to buy the necessary grease for the outdrive service, they didn't sell it, they recommended 2-4-C. So if they don't sell the stuff that Mercruiser says you should use, then presumably they use the 2-4-C when they "professionally" service peoples boats.

Makes you wonder....

 

[oGaryo]

Come on, do tell - why was it overheating?

BTW when I went to the local Mercruiser dealer to buy the necessary grease for the outdrive service, they didn't sell it, they recommended 2-4-C. So if they don't sell the stuff that Mercruiser says you should use, then presumably they use the 2-4-C when they "professionally" service peoples boats.

Makes you wonder....

bear in mind the boat's been on a trailer since my ownership (Nov 2010),,, I found the waterways leading from the inlet holes at the base of the leg up to the water pump almost completely closed due to a build up of barnacles.. 5 minutes with a long screwdriver and they were completely gone.. one of the drain holes at the side of the leg was completely closed due to barnacle growth on the inside of the leg. there was a build up of calcium around the inside of the pump to the extent it had worn the edges of the impeller.. again, no way this could have built up since my ownership and leads me to believe the service organisation that carried out a full leg service 6 months prior to me taking ownership (impellor change etc) and the work they had subsequently carried out a month prior to taking ownership (changed all bellows, gimbal bearing and water pickup pipe).. didn't result in them dealing fully with the root cause of issues with the leg at the time i.e. barnacle growth...

 

[volvopaul]

Hi thanks for your kind words.

Pro outfits should employ the right people for the job not anyone that has a box of spanners.

Im currently giving as its called "expert opinion" for a client who had his engine rebuilt for it to last a few hours at a cost inexcess of 5.5k, when his solicitor an I got down to the nitty gritty of the River M*****y based company they didnt have one engineer with any actuall marine background or qualifications relating to marine engines let alone volvopenta, I cant say any more as its on going but it just goes to show that as gary says you cant trust what it says on the tin, or the door for that matter. CV turned out he was an mot tester in a garage beforehand!.

What I will say is that someone has to start somewhere, usually an apprenticeship with a company which is the correct route to go, however that is heavily reliant on the companies stategy and how they deploy the workforce at what level they trust there apprentice after a spell in training. Ive heard so many times from new clients that they have come to there boat on the day of service to find 2 18 year olds with the music blaring out on there boat and very little beng done as there too busy texting and on facebook etc, when the should be working.

And who signs off the work or checks it after, service managers should but the outset is that the engineer should be 100% capeable in the first place, I for one have done many services on 2 year old boats to find filters with the original green paint on where access has been limited because they cant be bothered to move the table and lift the floor up away from the engine, I could go on but you get my point, its all about the man for the job.

 

[Seahope]

anyone else feel the same?

Gary, it seems a lot of people on this forum have quite good mechanical skills and are able to undertake a lot of the service work themselves. For the rest of us we have to trust the professionals. I have seen the care Gingie has taken over the rebuild of my engines and I know who I will use to service them going forward.

I think there is a big advantage in having a single engineer servicing one's engines as that way everyone has a common understanding of who did what when. During the engine rebuild a few things came to light which were caused IMHO by someone not taking sufficient care in the past, but who that someone was I don't and can't know as many different people have worked on them over the years.

Given the price of new engines, or even engine parts, it is slightly worrying that our insurance policies do not protect us from a major mechanical failure giving one only two options: trying to recover the costs from the engine manufacturer (if within warranty) or via the outfit that serviced them through professional indemnity insurance (assuming they have that). A failure of a part though may just be one of those things that we have to accept and pay up and look big as father always says.

 

[landlockedpirate]

On my new to me boat I found the outdrive bellows held on with a tie wrap, and a bill for nearly a grand for servicing the leg , nuff said !!

 

[carlton]

...the waterways leading from the inlet holes at the base of the leg up to the water pump almost completely closed due to a build up of barnacles.. 5 minutes with a long screwdriver and they were completely gone.. one of the drain holes at the side of the leg was completely closed due to barnacle growth on the inside of the leg...

Snap!

Last year I had a mysterious overheat on the starboard engine. I was racking my feeble brains to discover the cause. Eventually I got it.

We'd been moored stern-to most of the time, and I'd noticed that on a big spring tide the very bottom of the drives was just touching the very soft silt. A bit of googling about the life cycle of barnacles revealed that the larvae live in the silt until they can find something to climb up and settle on for the rest of their lives, where they sit - and grow through their adult lives.

With the boat still in the water, I raised the drives and, using an old stainless steel rod which I bent at the right angle I fettled the water inlet holes one by one, and resistance was felt in quite a few of them, especially on the starboard drive.

Clouds of calcium appeared in the water as I scrunched the barnacles. A quick test drive proved the problem had been sorted.

As a result of this experience I now moor bows-to.

(Edit: the answer is to service the drive(s) yourself).

 

[lovezoo]

(Edit: the answer is to service the drive(s) yourself).

And everything else to be honest - I mean how difficult is it to change an oil filter - at least if you do it yourself you know it has definitely been done (or not as the case may be), rather than paying someone else not to do it...

Mind you having said that [smug] my oil filter has the remote kit and is fitted on the top of the engine [/smug], so it isn't that hard to do.

 

[vas]

On my new to me boat I found the outdrive bellows held on with a tie wrap, and a bill for nearly a grand for servicing the leg , nuff said !!

yes, but tie wraps wont rust and dissintegrate, will they
some people...

I also try to do everything myself, if not for anything else, but come a failure in mid sea, no engineer is going to come and fix it, so I might as well have a clue what's going on!

cheers

V.

 

[landlockedpirate]

yes, but tie wraps wont rust and dissintegrate, will they
some people...

I also try to do everything myself, if not for anything else, but come a failure in mid sea, no engineer is going to come and fix it, so I might as well have a clue what's going on!

cheers

V.

I know, but for a grand I would have expected at least 2 tie wraps

 

[vas]

I know, but for a grand I would have expected at least 2 tie wraps

touché

maybe it was a v.large and wide one or a grand is not enough for two large tie wraps?

tbh, I always thought that this sort of horror stories re "specialists" was a particularity of the south, but astonished to hear it's not so...

 

[Scubadoo]

Very early on I had problems with using so called professionals. As I am not confident enough to service my outdrive, eventually I found a good realiable volvo agent to do it. However I will always make sure I am in attendance while the servicing work is carried out, that way I learn, ensure the work is carried out to my satisfacation and normally it is the same guy.

I learnt the hard way when I first had my boat new, that time is was sealine hamble, everytime I had them down to fix things under warranty, I almost felt they left me with a new problem, after that I was very wary of anyone in the marine trade.

 

[Hairy]

I was planning on using one of these so called professionals (main dealers located in Portsmouth Harbour area) to have a look at a pair of KAD300s in a boat I'm looking to buy. I'm told that they don't do surveys as the insurance doesn't cover it, but they will do inspections! Is this the norm? Any better suggestions on what to do much appreciated?

 

[boating malarky]

So called professionals

I would like to tell you all about my experience last year with a certain so called professional engineers.

I got my engine looked at with a camera to discover my problem which resulted in my engine being taken out. So out it came, off to the workshops it went, so whilst I was in the yard I continued to complete all the normal boating tasks. After many updates phone calls and various explanations and discussions I went ahead with the work needed to be done at the agreed price....the sum of just over £2000. For which I thought was a good price for the work that was needed to be completed.

Two months later, after many phone call conversations and visits, the engine was refitted. It was tested and run in their workshop first and I was informed it performed well and as expected.

The boat was launched and the next day I took her out for a sea trial, her first with the fixed engine after only 30 minutes my gauges went mad and the engine temp was starting to rise, I shut down the engine and came in on my other engine. But on my way in, I decided to take a look in the engine bay, only to discover the bilges was full of hot black oil. I did forget to mention that I took a respected sailing friend with me, glad I did, as he was on the helm at the time and was a good witness to what happened. I did also take some photos and kept a log of the events as it was happening.

I called the engineers immediatley to inform them of my plight, their reaction was to come down the following morning.

When I returned alongside safely and after the engine cooled, I decided to take a long hard look myself, to try and find why this could have happened.
I checked all over, around and under the engine, the hoses, clips, everything only to my utter horror to discover, the drain plug on the engine sump was not there. It was after some searching in the bottom of the bilges in the oil, that I found it.

I told the engineers my discovery the next day and after some muttering between the engineers themselves, they told me they needed to get back to their office and will be in contact.

Well they did contact me in the same hour, they returned fitted the drain plug and filled the engine with new oil and started her up...................well you can guess my reaction when I heard the grunting and graoning as she started up,..... it certainly didnt sound smooth in any way at all.

So all in all, after some polite discussions and meetings I was informed my boat needed to come out again and the engine needed to come out.

So you are now................ all wondering what the outcome has been.

A happy ending I am pleased to say................so far.

I got a brand new engine fitted some three weeks later. So the new engine was fitted great you say......must be a very happy bunny now......well not quite. The boat back in the water, next day I try to start her up................nothing, I called them after many telephone conversations and discussions with various engineers, I politely force them to come down to check the engine. They came and after some 30 minutes they discover the fuel pump was nackered, also I pointed out to them that the fuel filters had not been fitted back on and two electrical cables had not been connected back either........................

Another few days and off they came to fit the new pump.............big smiles now as she starts and seems to be running ever so smoothly and quietely.

Its been a few months now and I have clocked up some sea miles and just done a oil and filter change and all seems to be fine. The truth of the matter is, I had lost a whole summers sailing and incurred quite a few bills, like yard charges, crane, new anti fouling twice, but with some quite stern comments and actions from me, I did manage to get 80% of those charges back.

So a lesson to all, please all boaters check everything yourself even after a so called engineer has either checked your boat or has done any work on her. Before you do anything, dont be afraid to ask questions and get them to explain everything, keep a record of corrospondance and communications and any agreed quotations, get them to put it into writing and most of all what is my Warrantees after the work has been done and how long will it run for.

I really hope no other boater has to experience this episode as I did. It was a total sham on their part and I will certainly never forget it for a while.

So the summer is comming and I wish everyone safe and happy sailing and cruising time this season.

Boating Malarky

 

[volvopaul]

Who on earth did you use to repair your engine? how could they turn a job out like that, then not finish off a new engine properly with a full sea trial test to protect there investment in keeping a customer happy, some of the snippets I hear about in this industry never fails to amaze me.

 

[boating malarky]

profesionals engines

Paul thanks for the comment.

Would it be professional to mention the said company or should I reveal to all, as an isolated danger marker for all to see and carefully navigate clear of them.

And if that wasnt enough, 3 weeks ago I started to get a small problem on my starboard engine. I got a new engineer to check it for me and he discovered the problem in only a few minutes.....

It seems for some very strange reason on the distrubuter cap, stb engine one of the two bolts that tightens it into position has been cross threaded so badly, that it has caused it not to sit correctly and has badly worn out the inside and all the contacts. So new distrubter cap on its way everything else is fine.

What I did forget to mention in my previous chapter was, I had to also get a new starter motor also..... another £250 to my bill at the time as they said it wasnt working well. It was working fine before they they started working on it at the time, as I had it tested only a few weeks earlier and all was well. My boating neighbours told me the only two days I was away from the boat at that time, for over two days they were starting stopping starting all day long............so one would think with that amount of constant starting the bl.....dy thing would eventually burn out.

Paul, I am certainly not ranting here I have the temprement of a saint believe me, as when I am at work peoples lives are in my hands, so I care a lot about people.............: I just wanted to warn others. Like everything there are good and bad in all walks of life, but I think for a lot of boaters we are slightly at the mercy of engineers...