jimi
Well-Known Member
When you rig your tri do you rig it on the boom or not? I've got a gas strut and can's see myself undoing it all so for me the only real option is rigging it on the boom, any thoughts?
Trisail .. to boom or not?
- Thread starter jimi
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Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
All the ones i've ever seen are not on the boom.....
In the mast track yes, but then cranked down to deck at the tack and clew....
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I seem to recall that ORC regs require the trisail to NOT be on the boom......
In the mast track yes, but then cranked down to deck at the tack and clew....
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I seem to recall that ORC regs require the trisail to NOT be on the boom......
tome
Well-Known Member
If you sheet it to the boom you're better off with a deep 3rd reef in the main IMO, which a lot of people use instead of a trisail
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Thinking about it.... I would prefer in those conditions to be able to take the boom out of the equation anyway.....
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
Jimi,
Why would you need to remove your Kicker anyway?
Why not just crank the boom down really tight, with kicker and main sheet, and then rig the Tri to sit to the side of it?
Why would you need to remove your Kicker anyway?
Why not just crank the boom down really tight, with kicker and main sheet, and then rig the Tri to sit to the side of it?
tome
Well-Known Member
We have both 3rd reef and a trisail so can chose, but the added complication of dismantling a strut might make me favour the deep reef
We've used the 3rd reef a few times but never yet the trisail in anger
We've used the 3rd reef a few times but never yet the trisail in anger
michael_w
Well-Known Member
Having used a trysail in anger, I found that for windward work it set better using the boom (aka Swedish mainsail) and for downwind without the boom (no nasty large lumps of metal flogging about).
Big problem is those inventions of the devil, solid vangs, as they make lowering the boom to the deck nigh impossible.
One of the disadvantages with the deep 3rd reef option is what happens if you damage your mainsail?
Big problem is those inventions of the devil, solid vangs, as they make lowering the boom to the deck nigh impossible.
One of the disadvantages with the deep 3rd reef option is what happens if you damage your mainsail?
jimi
Well-Known Member
If I left the gas strut on I'd need to set the tri really high to clear the boom and bits ... and the last thing you'd want is a high tri in big winds.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
On that subject as well.... for a trisail to work properly, you really should also have a seperate track for it, so that it can be rigged in either readiness, or without having to remove the main in less than ideal conditions.....
I have a main with a bolt rope foot, so could possibly get the main off in an emergency without it or me going over the side, but would really prefer not to!
Not a problem though, as I have a deep 3rd reef, and no trisail!....
I have a main with a bolt rope foot, so could possibly get the main off in an emergency without it or me going over the side, but would really prefer not to!
Not a problem though, as I have a deep 3rd reef, and no trisail!....
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you need to worry about the vang. All trysails I've seen are rigged with tack above the boom level and the only issue is clearing the lazyjacks, if any. Not sure what the comments of others about setting the sail down close to deck level are about either as have never come across that (maybe someone could find a link or post a photo showing that).
In our own case we have a separate track taken right down close to the deck with a pin in the bottom so the sail slides can be gotten in and the sail left bagged (or in case one needs to be on ones knees). The sheet is taken to a snatch block with integrated snap shackle clipped on the toerail (which heavy ss and is punched along its length so block position is adjustable). I know others who take it to the boom and maintain this gives more control but I suspect, in the end, it is 6 of one and half doz of the other.
We carry a storm jib as well.
However, after all that, we have never used our trysail in anger as we find our boat sails well and quite close to the wind under heavy weather jib alone, set on an inner forestay to upper spreaders, once we get into wind strengths where would consider the trysail. Get quite alot of leeway but that mainly through driven sideways by seas.
I could not see us ever using the trysail downwind, as again once the wind gets up around 40-45 kts and more our heavy weather jib gets us up to hull speed and we run under heavily reefed genoa alone up to that wind speed (but the genoa is a heavy construction triradial cut made for heavy conditions).
Our heavy weather jib is strongly made and not alot bigger in area than the storm one so the storm one has never been used either. So, in the end, our storm sails are really just in case and more likely to be used following the failure of other sails (also yachts registered here are required to carry storm sails if clearing the country - which I think is sensible).
All the above on a 10 T dry weight, 40 foot fin keeled, spade ruddered cruising yacht. Lighter boats will be different re when storm sails needed, of course.
John
In our own case we have a separate track taken right down close to the deck with a pin in the bottom so the sail slides can be gotten in and the sail left bagged (or in case one needs to be on ones knees). The sheet is taken to a snatch block with integrated snap shackle clipped on the toerail (which heavy ss and is punched along its length so block position is adjustable). I know others who take it to the boom and maintain this gives more control but I suspect, in the end, it is 6 of one and half doz of the other.
We carry a storm jib as well.
However, after all that, we have never used our trysail in anger as we find our boat sails well and quite close to the wind under heavy weather jib alone, set on an inner forestay to upper spreaders, once we get into wind strengths where would consider the trysail. Get quite alot of leeway but that mainly through driven sideways by seas.
I could not see us ever using the trysail downwind, as again once the wind gets up around 40-45 kts and more our heavy weather jib gets us up to hull speed and we run under heavily reefed genoa alone up to that wind speed (but the genoa is a heavy construction triradial cut made for heavy conditions).
Our heavy weather jib is strongly made and not alot bigger in area than the storm one so the storm one has never been used either. So, in the end, our storm sails are really just in case and more likely to be used following the failure of other sails (also yachts registered here are required to carry storm sails if clearing the country - which I think is sensible).
All the above on a 10 T dry weight, 40 foot fin keeled, spade ruddered cruising yacht. Lighter boats will be different re when storm sails needed, of course.
John
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
John,
Suspect that was my post..... didn't mean the tack... poor writing.... just the clew down to near deck level..... like this:
Suspect that was my post..... didn't mean the tack... poor writing.... just the clew down to near deck level..... like this:
jimi
Well-Known Member
Aha. wonderered why you were wittering on about the tack! My concern would be setting a free Trisail agains a boom (with lazyjacks etc) not ony would making tacking difficult, it would also cause loads of damage to the boom etc
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
not sure tacking would be easy with the sheet down to the toe rail regardless!
Do you think it would damage the boom? I would have thought it would be held well way from the boom other than when flogging head to wind surely?
Do you think it would damage the boom? I would have thought it would be held well way from the boom other than when flogging head to wind surely?
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Great minds think alike then /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Jimi, assuming the clew is taken to the side of the boat, the boom can be left central (we sheet it hard centrally and then a line tight to, in our case, a handrail to one side anytime when main not set and lots of motion). The lazyjacks need to be taken forward to the mast so main needs to be lashed to the boom (we find we need to do that in strong winds anyway) - that even if not intending to tack if clew needs to go on opposite side of the boat to the trysail's track and so needs to cross the boom when set (that is if it has its own track, not an issue if set on main track as could just let the lazyjacks fly loose enuff maybe if not goin' to flap around too much).
John
Jimi, assuming the clew is taken to the side of the boat, the boom can be left central (we sheet it hard centrally and then a line tight to, in our case, a handrail to one side anytime when main not set and lots of motion). The lazyjacks need to be taken forward to the mast so main needs to be lashed to the boom (we find we need to do that in strong winds anyway) - that even if not intending to tack if clew needs to go on opposite side of the boat to the trysail's track and so needs to cross the boom when set (that is if it has its own track, not an issue if set on main track as could just let the lazyjacks fly loose enuff maybe if not goin' to flap around too much).
John
Mirelle
N/A
NOT. (Been there, done that thing, got the T shirt...)
It is for all practical purposes impossible to tack under a trysail. The boat will not point high enough to go through the wind in the conditions that caused you to set the trysail in the first place.
You can heave to, make slightly to windward if you are lucky, reach, or run off.
If you need to change tacks, "wear ship", i.e. - gybe.
Sheeting the trysail to the boom is just daft. You really don't want that weight slamming about.
However, it is easy enough to set the trysail so that the clew is above the boom.
It is for all practical purposes impossible to tack under a trysail. The boat will not point high enough to go through the wind in the conditions that caused you to set the trysail in the first place.
You can heave to, make slightly to windward if you are lucky, reach, or run off.
If you need to change tacks, "wear ship", i.e. - gybe.
Sheeting the trysail to the boom is just daft. You really don't want that weight slamming about.
However, it is easy enough to set the trysail so that the clew is above the boom.
jimi
Well-Known Member
Will try (sic) it and see how it works.
Swagman
Well-Known Member
I've only ever used one years back when we had to dismantle the then boats boom to gain a steering part (don't ask more). As we could not then fly the mainsail and we also did not have a powerful engine - the trisail came out of its bag. Guess that would testify to a value in having a trisail as a back up.
However, have to also say I've never once in 20 years used one in a storm and tend to nowerdays fit a third reef in the main - and even that we've not used in heavy weather conditions over past 10 years!
I appreciate it is all belt and braces and sids law says if we chose to do without - we'd soon experience a need - but I sometimes wonder if we are not OTT today with storm sail requirements? In this modern day and age of better forecasts and shorter times on passages - I suspect the need is much less than it was 20 years back.
Cheers
JOHN
However, have to also say I've never once in 20 years used one in a storm and tend to nowerdays fit a third reef in the main - and even that we've not used in heavy weather conditions over past 10 years!
I appreciate it is all belt and braces and sids law says if we chose to do without - we'd soon experience a need - but I sometimes wonder if we are not OTT today with storm sail requirements? In this modern day and age of better forecasts and shorter times on passages - I suspect the need is much less than it was 20 years back.
Cheers
JOHN
William_H
Well-Known Member
I would suggest that a trisail is only used when you need to make way into the wind any other point well off the wind would be acheived under bare poles. To sail into the wind you would need to be able to tack ( and be prepared for inadvertant tacking or getting into irons) the boat and as such you would probably need a jib on an inner forestay that could be backed to get the bow around. I reckon the jib would also aid the windward performance.
To tack a trisail you would need to have 2 sheets if it is loose footed (like a jib) and sheeted to the toe rail or similar. The clew would have to have a free range over the boom requiring the boom be low enough and the topping lift and lazy jacks not in place. And disconnect rigid vang strut.
Or attach the clew to the boom. However this could become a dangerous thing compared to having it lashed down.
The best suggestion is that you try using the trisail in a reasonable wind and see how you cope. You will soon know what works. Certainly waiting for a storm before you find out is no good.. olewill
To tack a trisail you would need to have 2 sheets if it is loose footed (like a jib) and sheeted to the toe rail or similar. The clew would have to have a free range over the boom requiring the boom be low enough and the topping lift and lazy jacks not in place. And disconnect rigid vang strut.
Or attach the clew to the boom. However this could become a dangerous thing compared to having it lashed down.
The best suggestion is that you try using the trisail in a reasonable wind and see how you cope. You will soon know what works. Certainly waiting for a storm before you find out is no good.. olewill
jimi
Well-Known Member
Upon thinking about it ..
Now got two winter projects
1) DElayed inner/emergency forestay
2) Easy gas strut/boom removal/refit process.
Now got two winter projects
1) DElayed inner/emergency forestay
2) Easy gas strut/boom removal/refit process.
FullCircle
Well-Known Member
Jimi,
I will post some photos tonight showing my detachable forestay installation. Will fit your layout also I think.
So, I have been thinking about the lashing of the boom centrally. This relies on the integrity and strength of the topping lift, which on mine is a bit of string really. I will change this for 8mm Dyneema.
I thought also about a bullseye on the coachroof either side near the coachroof winches. These will serve as the lashing points for the boom centralisation lashing and the sheet feeds for the Trisail, which will go over the boom, as the trisail clew will be higher than the boom. Twin sheet setup, using the coachroof winches as the sheet control.
I already have an eye on the underside of the boom to attach a lashing strop to either side bullseye.
Any thoughts?
I will post some photos tonight showing my detachable forestay installation. Will fit your layout also I think.
So, I have been thinking about the lashing of the boom centrally. This relies on the integrity and strength of the topping lift, which on mine is a bit of string really. I will change this for 8mm Dyneema.
I thought also about a bullseye on the coachroof either side near the coachroof winches. These will serve as the lashing points for the boom centralisation lashing and the sheet feeds for the Trisail, which will go over the boom, as the trisail clew will be higher than the boom. Twin sheet setup, using the coachroof winches as the sheet control.
I already have an eye on the underside of the boom to attach a lashing strop to either side bullseye.
Any thoughts?
