doctormilner
Active Member
I recommend vectran cross cut, incredibly tough and holds shape well, with an acrylic sacrificial strip. Hood designed vectran for cross cut construction.
Triradial versus Crosscut
- Thread starter Yealm
- Start date
Yealm
Well-Known Member
My current one is 140% - was thinking of going for 135% so slightly easier to tack and less need for reefing.. but I'm still dithering !
bedouin
Well-Known Member
My rig is very similar to yours - I found the large 140-150% unsatisfactory as if it is heavy enough to use partly reefed it is too heavy to set well in light airs. I tried something in the 120-130 range but it didn't work with my rig - I lsot 5 degrees or so pointing angle, so settled on a 110% Vectran that works pretty nicely
jimi
Well-Known Member
My understanding is I'd only go for a tri in a a laminate material as any stretch will remove the benefits of the tri cut. Cross cut is more forgiving of stretch. On my previous boat I had a tri cut slightly smaller and it was a great sail. It had a foam luff and reefing did'nt wreck the shape. My rationale for cutting smaller was that in light airs if I was off the wind at all I'd be using the cruising chute and I could hold onto it longer unreefed. IMHO the tri cut is worth it.
Yealm
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Vectran sounds good, though i think poor UV protection ?
Concerto
Well-Known Member
Not had that mentioned, but why I stressed how the leech is made. Also worth using a white sacrificial as it does not look like a furling genoa. I forgot to mention I sail a Fulmar, so the genoa is a similar size to the Co32, and I have a 130% with a cross cut in Vektran.
dom
Well-Known Member
I think you're basically right, but the word Dacron encompasses quite a lot of cloths. Some Dacron is strongly warp oriented allowing the load lines to match up to the primary load lines in a radial sail. Some say these sails hold their shape a bit better than crosscut.
Or one might choose a crosscut genoa out of fill oriented hydranet which would knock the dacron radial for six. Or one might choose a warp oriented hydranet to make a radial sail for a bigger boat, or a bigger sail for the same boat.
Then there are the currency fluctuations which constantly move the cost/value equation.
It's a vast and dynamic spectrum; if I owned something like a Co32 - which I don't - I'd forget about pre-specifying cross-cut or radial, see what's out there at a decent price, talk to a trusted sailmaker(s) and go from there!
BabaYaga
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Considering the different manners in which a paneled sail can be stitched together, I doubt it is the loading of the seams – across, along or somewhere in between – that is the most critical issue.
In my understanding the loading of the cloth itself and the amount of stretch that occurs in various dimensions is more important.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Yes, just the point made by Pete Sanders in the video clip. It is better to fly a smaller sail which will set well for the majority of the time; roller reefing the headsail has a dreadful effect its performance.
IIRC he says it is sometimes better to put two reefs in the main first - which on a Contessa makes it almost of storm trisail dimensions -).
This is, of course, thinking in terms of flat water speed as a priority. Personally I go for c135%, cross cut, dacron, cut short in the luff for better forward vision.
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bedouin
Well-Known Member
Actually I thought the opposite, but can't remember the details. I seem to recall it being used on Clipper boats that go twice rounds the world on one set of sails.
I am sure Peter Sanders will inform you.
richardbrennan
Well-Known Member
This is the cloth I have for my genoa.
www.northsails.com/sailing/materials/npc/radian.
As you will read, it's specifically designed to work with tri-radial sails.
www.northsails.com/sailing/materials/npc/radian.
As you will read, it's specifically designed to work with tri-radial sails.
Yealm
Well-Known Member
doug748
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a plan.
I think the racers have found they can hold a full sail much longer since they took up stable composites. :encouragement:
I think the racers have found they can hold a full sail much longer since they took up stable composites. :encouragement:
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember that as well. We bought our crosscut Vectron main specifically for use in the med. and would have queried it. I remember choosing a dark colour for the UV strip on the main. I thought that might last longer than a white strip and Crusader suggested the same thing.
I think that Vectron is made by Challenge Sailcloth using Vectran.
I bought a Bi-radial furling genoa, with foam insert, from Crusader at the same time. It works well and set is still good when I put in a few turns.
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dom
Well-Known Member
Vectan is an LCP fibre which performs poorly in UV. That said years ago Hood (I think) made some decent cloth using Vectran with good UV additives plus a tight weave that seemed to work well. After Hood, the cloth quality collapsed, even on cloth branded ‘Hood’.
Now Vectran is included in a cloth called Vectron made by Dimension Polyant (also owns the Vectran name) which includes a UV protector: https://www.dimension-polyant.com/w.../03/dp_Produktflyer_Vectron_E_-Web.x92783.pdf
That’s why it’s important to know exactly what you’re buying - nothing in theory to stop a cheapo cloth with some added Vectran or other high-modules fibres offered as an alluring ‘boatshow deal’.
Add a couple of Camden Market smooth talkers and the sales if not the sails can be pretty impressive
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
Vectan is an LCP fibre which performs poorly in UV. That said years ago Hood (I think) made some decent cloth using Vectran with good UV additives plus a tight weave that seemed to work well. After Hood, the cloth quality collapsed, even on cloth branded ‘Hood’.
Now Vectran is included in a cloth called Vectron made by Dimension Polyant (also owns the Vectran name) which includes a UV protector: https://www.dimension-polyant.com/w.../03/dp_Produktflyer_Vectron_E_-Web.x92783.pdf
That’s why it’s important to know exactly what you’re buying - nothing in theory to stop a cheapo cloth with some added Vectran or other high-modules fibres offered as an alluring ‘boatshow deal’.
Add a couple of Camden Market smooth talkers and the sales if not the sails can be pretty impressive
That's why I was fairly careful at the time and did some reading on Vectron at the time. Pretty certain I found some information about UV resistance and testing carried out. Nothing to stop people printing completely false information of course. Crusader had a good name and the manufacturer seemed to be well known and specifically mentioned steps taken to improve UV resistance.
It was a few years ago and I had a quick look at the firms involved and Crusader did mention both Challenge Sailcloth and Dimension Polyant. I couldn't remember the latter initially but they would have been responsible for the Vectron.
dom
Well-Known Member
Think you did your due dilligence well and that is the key with sails. BTW 99% sure Crusader use the Dimension Polyant cloth which seems to be highly rated and UV stable.
My point really was that Vectran per se is not uv stable - though with the appropriate treatment it is - so there’s nothing to stop a discount sailmaker lawfully specifying its use, or indeed the use of many other high-modules fibres, in an unstablilised and/or unsuitable format.
Steve The Seagull
Active Member
Tri Radial, done in the correct cloth is the best long term shape holding and performance for a paneled sail, and also the most shape stable through the wind range which is something often forgotten about.
Vectran has its place and is good as high aspect cloth on mainsails and jibs with high leech loading but does not work great on genoas with a big overlap due to increased bias loading, where a high quality dacron is much better option.
More lofts are selling Vectran since hood closed over radial sails as it means a easier sail to produce, but they can often apply it to the wrong application so care is needed.
At the end of the day it all comes down to the boat and sailing plans. For someone planning on just local sailing with low loadings then cross cut is a great and affordable option, but if you are planning on longer legs or some racing where you will be loading your sails for longer periods than a radial sail will provide more power for less heel for a longer time = in the bar sooner!
Vectran has its place and is good as high aspect cloth on mainsails and jibs with high leech loading but does not work great on genoas with a big overlap due to increased bias loading, where a high quality dacron is much better option.
More lofts are selling Vectran since hood closed over radial sails as it means a easier sail to produce, but they can often apply it to the wrong application so care is needed.
At the end of the day it all comes down to the boat and sailing plans. For someone planning on just local sailing with low loadings then cross cut is a great and affordable option, but if you are planning on longer legs or some racing where you will be loading your sails for longer periods than a radial sail will provide more power for less heel for a longer time = in the bar sooner!
Barbican
Well-Known Member
Very interesting thread, and I'm pleased because it means I have probably made the right choices on the new boat based on the advice from Disco/Peter Sanders and the forum. We went with DP Vectron for the cross cut Main and Jib, and DP PR394 for the Tri Radial Genoa. Rationale here https://southerly480.com/what-was-the-buying-process-like/sails/.
The other cloth I was interested in for the Main/Jib was Nautosphere Voyager, but it was expensive and difficult to get any feedback on it - Anybody tried it? Replaces the Vactran with dyneema and is woven on the old Hood looms so seems to have good potential....
The other cloth I was interested in for the Main/Jib was Nautosphere Voyager, but it was expensive and difficult to get any feedback on it - Anybody tried it? Replaces the Vactran with dyneema and is woven on the old Hood looms so seems to have good potential....