kelvin
New Member
Thanks Olewill. I'll bear it in mind but its a bit further afield than I was hoping to go for a new boat.
Cheers
Kelvin
Trident 24 - any good?
- Thread starter kelvin
- Start date
Thanks Olewill. I'll bear it in mind but its a bit further afield than I was hoping to go for a new boat.
Cheers
Kelvin
William_H
Well-Known Member
Sydney Trident 24
Hello bob26
I am not absolutely sure it is a Trident it might have been a Triton photo attached. It really seems very similar to thye UK Trident except for that cabin top.http://www.ybw.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3643&stc=1&d=1266360583
olewill
Hello bob26
I am not absolutely sure it is a Trident it might have been a Triton photo attached. It really seems very similar to thye UK Trident except for that cabin top.http://www.ybw.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3643&stc=1&d=1266360583
olewill
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oldharry
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that - sadlyalmost certainly not a Trident hull I would say: the Trident has a more curved stem as in Bobs 'Lottie' below:
bob26
Well-Known Member
Triton 24 and Trident24
Yes I think you are right Olewill - your pic is a Triton 24 (designed John Alsop) not a Trident 24 (designed Alan Hill).
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_24_Yacht
and sailing past Sydney Opera House here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P7ah5ZZvk
The Tritons of my youth were motorbikes - hybrids with the superb Triumph engines and race-winning Norton frames as I recall - the best of both worlds. I wonder if that meant that also running around were a lot of duff Norumphs?
Yes I think you are right Olewill - your pic is a Triton 24 (designed John Alsop) not a Trident 24 (designed Alan Hill).
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_24_Yacht
and sailing past Sydney Opera House here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P7ah5ZZvk
The Tritons of my youth were motorbikes - hybrids with the superb Triumph engines and race-winning Norton frames as I recall - the best of both worlds. I wonder if that meant that also running around were a lot of duff Norumphs?
bob26
Well-Known Member
Thanks Old Harry but...
Flattering though it is to have one's pride and joy snapped by the papparazzi and posted on this esteemed forum I's have preferred a photo of her in her pride and glory - or at least clean at the start of the season rather than one on the hard waiting for a scrub-off at laying-up time. Such is the lot of a celeb craft I suppose. No privacy. This is the publicity still I normally send out to fans - its not touched up at all as some have claimed. The beautiful evening light brings out her complexion a treat...
Flattering though it is to have one's pride and joy snapped by the papparazzi and posted on this esteemed forum I's have preferred a photo of her in her pride and glory - or at least clean at the start of the season rather than one on the hard waiting for a scrub-off at laying-up time. Such is the lot of a celeb craft I suppose. No privacy. This is the publicity still I normally send out to fans - its not touched up at all as some have claimed. The beautiful evening light brings out her complexion a treat...
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Kittyhawk
New Member
Pfwooor! get a load of the topsides on her...
I had a Trident 24 for eight years. They're fabulous sea boats for their size and as everyone says very tough and well-built. Good to see they are still going strong.
I did several cross channel trips in mine without any worries. I heard one Trident has crossed over 120 times and that at least one sailed to the West Indies.
Alan Hill really knows his stuff and with the Trident 24 managed to produce a design that looks good and works well. I'm not surprised to see there are so many fans about still and former owners like me who remember their Trident with great affection.
I had a Trident 24 for eight years. They're fabulous sea boats for their size and as everyone says very tough and well-built. Good to see they are still going strong.
I did several cross channel trips in mine without any worries. I heard one Trident has crossed over 120 times and that at least one sailed to the West Indies.
Alan Hill really knows his stuff and with the Trident 24 managed to produce a design that looks good and works well. I'm not surprised to see there are so many fans about still and former owners like me who remember their Trident with great affection.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Sorry Bob - but it was the best photo I had access to which shows clearly the full profile of the Trident hull and keels. And yours was a lot cleaner than a similar pic of mine taken about the same time.... 
But then as you know, your boat is in far better shape than mine - though I am working on it!
But then as you know, your boat is in far better shape than mine - though I am working on it!
Kittyhawk
New Member
Trident sailing from Alderney
You can see how one sails here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SttgtkyMVQ
You can see how one sails here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SttgtkyMVQ
bob26
Well-Known Member
And here...
This is a fin keel Trident 24 called Lady in Silkeborg Denmark...going quite well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaSw9GZrGc
This is a fin keel Trident 24 called Lady in Silkeborg Denmark...going quite well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDaSw9GZrGc
kelvin
New Member
Tridents handling under power?
Thanks for all your helpful replies. What a fantastic forum this is. I'm really encouraged and hope to look at a Trident this weekend. But its out of the water and I won't have a chance to try it out. I don't have much experience of driving a boat with an inboard and I've heard some boats can be hard to control in reverse. I know its a sailing boat but how does the Trident handle under engine?
Kelvin
Thanks for all your helpful replies. What a fantastic forum this is. I'm really encouraged and hope to look at a Trident this weekend. But its out of the water and I won't have a chance to try it out. I don't have much experience of driving a boat with an inboard and I've heard some boats can be hard to control in reverse. I know its a sailing boat but how does the Trident handle under engine?
Kelvin
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Very nice under power, but dont let go of the tiller - she may surprise you by doing a smart about turn! Easy to control in reverse, and the amount of propwash (sideways motion before she starts moving backwards, caused by the paddle wheel effect of the propellor which nearly all boats do to some degree) depends on the kind of prop fitted, and whether it is two or three bladed. Propwash is rarely excessive on these boats.
Highly manoeverable under power and even at near full speed capable of turning in little more than her own length in an emergency - not something you want to do often as it spills the tea! But very useful when you need to 'park' in a tight space.
I have a tiller lock on mine which holds her steady while I do other things when I am single handing. Some sort of autohelm is useful if you get caught out in a calm. It is claimed the Vire 6 many were originally fitted with could get her up to 6kts in smooth water flat out. Many have replaced the old Vire with diesels around 9 - 10hp which will push her along all day at 5 1/2 + knots cruising.
Go for it - you wont regret it!
Highly manoeverable under power and even at near full speed capable of turning in little more than her own length in an emergency - not something you want to do often as it spills the tea! But very useful when you need to 'park' in a tight space.
I have a tiller lock on mine which holds her steady while I do other things when I am single handing. Some sort of autohelm is useful if you get caught out in a calm. It is claimed the Vire 6 many were originally fitted with could get her up to 6kts in smooth water flat out. Many have replaced the old Vire with diesels around 9 - 10hp which will push her along all day at 5 1/2 + knots cruising.
Go for it - you wont regret it!
bob26
Well-Known Member
Easy peasy
Tridents handle very well under power. Almost as easy backwards as frontwards though you have to hold the tiller firmly as the pressure of water on back end of the balanced rudder when reversing can swing it hard over.
Interesting what Old Harry says about propwash differing with two or three blade props. I didn't know that. Though my impression is that I get less propwalk with my three bladed prop than I did with the two-bladed prop on my first Trident - though I'd assumed this was down to difference in pitch. Is that the way round you'd expect?
To be honest I miss it (the propwalk). Once you got used to it , it was quite handy to have sometimes to kick the back into a berth when going forwards into a short space alongside. When you gave a burst astern to stop the boat it tucked you in nicely. Of course if you had to reverse out again it would initially throw you the wrong way but its easy enough - once alongside - to swing the back out before casting off. And once you start moving astern its not noticeable. Even with the two-blade I don't think it was ever any worse than the later Westerlys I owned.
Tridents handle very well under power. Almost as easy backwards as frontwards though you have to hold the tiller firmly as the pressure of water on back end of the balanced rudder when reversing can swing it hard over.
Interesting what Old Harry says about propwash differing with two or three blade props. I didn't know that. Though my impression is that I get less propwalk with my three bladed prop than I did with the two-bladed prop on my first Trident - though I'd assumed this was down to difference in pitch. Is that the way round you'd expect?
To be honest I miss it (the propwalk). Once you got used to it , it was quite handy to have sometimes to kick the back into a berth when going forwards into a short space alongside. When you gave a burst astern to stop the boat it tucked you in nicely. Of course if you had to reverse out again it would initially throw you the wrong way but its easy enough - once alongside - to swing the back out before casting off. And once you start moving astern its not noticeable. Even with the two-blade I don't think it was ever any worse than the later Westerlys I owned.
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bob26
Well-Known Member
Review of handling under power
An early Yachts and Yachting sail test said about handling under power of a Trident fitted with a Vire 6 engine:
"Over the measured mile...the maximum speed was recorded at something over six knots and this would appear to be a genuine and true economic maximum since at this speed the stern wave had risen to a considerable degree.... the balanced rudder installed immediately behind the proellor showed no tendency to pull the boat to either port or starboard, the boat could be turned almost in its own length going forward and in reverse quite an unusual degree of control was evident..."
The review concluded: " the best compromise between performance and fuel consumption would be provided at about three quarters throttle at a speed of about 5 knots"
I'd agree with all that, having owned an earlier Trident with a Vire. I now have a 14hp Beta in mine and agree that at full throttle you just dig a deeper hole in the water for no appreciable increase in speed above about 6 knots and 5 knots is a lot more comfortable.
An early Yachts and Yachting sail test said about handling under power of a Trident fitted with a Vire 6 engine:
"Over the measured mile...the maximum speed was recorded at something over six knots and this would appear to be a genuine and true economic maximum since at this speed the stern wave had risen to a considerable degree.... the balanced rudder installed immediately behind the proellor showed no tendency to pull the boat to either port or starboard, the boat could be turned almost in its own length going forward and in reverse quite an unusual degree of control was evident..."
The review concluded: " the best compromise between performance and fuel consumption would be provided at about three quarters throttle at a speed of about 5 knots"
I'd agree with all that, having owned an earlier Trident with a Vire. I now have a 14hp Beta in mine and agree that at full throttle you just dig a deeper hole in the water for no appreciable increase in speed above about 6 knots and 5 knots is a lot more comfortable.
Kittyhawk
New Member
Handling under power - Vire 6
Ours had a Vire 6. Cracking little motors in their day but I guess getting a bit long in tooth by now. Pushed it along amazingly well but was light and easy to take out - one person can easily lift out and on/off boat. Hardly any heavier than a small outboard.
I have heard people say they are unreliable but ours was terrific and never let us down. Not so much as an oily plug which is often the bane of two-strokes.
And I agree with everything said about handling of Trident under engine. Very well mannered. Only when I bought bigger boats later did I discover how good Tridents were in this respect!
Ours had a Vire 6. Cracking little motors in their day but I guess getting a bit long in tooth by now. Pushed it along amazingly well but was light and easy to take out - one person can easily lift out and on/off boat. Hardly any heavier than a small outboard.
I have heard people say they are unreliable but ours was terrific and never let us down. Not so much as an oily plug which is often the bane of two-strokes.
And I agree with everything said about handling of Trident under engine. Very well mannered. Only when I bought bigger boats later did I discover how good Tridents were in this respect!
bob26
Well-Known Member
Vire down below
The old Vire 6 is rather prone to overheating as they get older - largely as a result of the cooling jacket on the pot filling up with rusty, silty crud with the result that the carburettor (mounted low down on the pot) gets too hot. That's why old ones seem to start fine from cold and tickover nicely but let you down when they warm up and die rather than tickover. I was once shown a Vire 6 cylinder lacket sawn in half by the Vire agents in Maldon. The bottom of the water jacket was completely filled up solid . This needs to be cleared out (which is not easy through the available access holes). It is also possible to improve on the Vire's cooling system. Details available from the Trident Owners Association.
The old Vire 6 is rather prone to overheating as they get older - largely as a result of the cooling jacket on the pot filling up with rusty, silty crud with the result that the carburettor (mounted low down on the pot) gets too hot. That's why old ones seem to start fine from cold and tickover nicely but let you down when they warm up and die rather than tickover. I was once shown a Vire 6 cylinder lacket sawn in half by the Vire agents in Maldon. The bottom of the water jacket was completely filled up solid . This needs to be cleared out (which is not easy through the available access holes). It is also possible to improve on the Vire's cooling system. Details available from the Trident Owners Association.
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oldharry
Well-Known Member
I think it has to do as much with the shape of the blades as the number of them, though I understand the two bladers were a little more likely to cause it. That was certainly true when I changed the prop on my old Seamew from 2 to 3 blades following an engine change - significantly less propwash. The old 2 blader had fairly thin blades, and quite a low blade area ratio, while the three blader I fitted had a quite big blade area. It certainly pushed the boat along faster - but that may well have been because of the better engine!
It seems that a narrow 2 blade prop may give more of a paddlewheel effect until the boat starts moving. Hull configuration can make a lot of difference too. A long keeler will resist the sideways propwash thrust much better than shallow drafted dinghy like boat which can be shunted sideways quicker.
bob26
Well-Known Member
Two blades more prop walk than three?
I guess if a paddlewheel was fully submerged it would be extremely inefficient since the top half would be trying to push the boat backwards while the bottom half was trying to propel it forwards. Such a paddlesteamer would only move at all by virtue of the water lower down being denser than that being propelled in the opposite direction near the surface.
Maybe that is the fundamental cause of prop walk since, though in theory the blades should cancel each other's sideways thrust out, in practice the lower blade can have more grip. Perhaps then, with three blades, the grip of the lowest blade is more strongly counteracted by the other two blades.
I guess if a paddlewheel was fully submerged it would be extremely inefficient since the top half would be trying to push the boat backwards while the bottom half was trying to propel it forwards. Such a paddlesteamer would only move at all by virtue of the water lower down being denser than that being propelled in the opposite direction near the surface.
Maybe that is the fundamental cause of prop walk since, though in theory the blades should cancel each other's sideways thrust out, in practice the lower blade can have more grip. Perhaps then, with three blades, the grip of the lowest blade is more strongly counteracted by the other two blades.
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Theory behind propwalk here: http://www.castlemarine.co.uk/download/propwalk.pdf.
From that it is clear that it is the angle of the propshaft that is the cause. It does not explain what made such a difference to my old Seamew changing from two to three blades. Castlemarine's explanation does not take into account blade design - presumably because they do not see it as a significant factor. Perhaps it is do with the different blade area ratios of a thin 2 blade and 'fat' 3 bladed prop?
I had also read elsewhere (though I do not have the reference to hand) that propwalk was to do with the higher density of the water at the bottom of the blade causing a paddlewheel effect. I always found that a bit hard to swallow with a small prop, but it could to a degree explain the different effect between 2 and 3 blade props.
Any propwalk experts out there?
From that it is clear that it is the angle of the propshaft that is the cause. It does not explain what made such a difference to my old Seamew changing from two to three blades. Castlemarine's explanation does not take into account blade design - presumably because they do not see it as a significant factor. Perhaps it is do with the different blade area ratios of a thin 2 blade and 'fat' 3 bladed prop?
I had also read elsewhere (though I do not have the reference to hand) that propwalk was to do with the higher density of the water at the bottom of the blade causing a paddlewheel effect. I always found that a bit hard to swallow with a small prop, but it could to a degree explain the different effect between 2 and 3 blade props.
Any propwalk experts out there?
prv
Well-Known Member
Not sure I buy that.
Looking round my yard, I see that boats with saildrives generally have the (very short) propeller shaft parallel to the waterline. But boats with saildrives can still have propwalk. I know they often have less, but I'd attribute that to different causes, such as the prop being further forward than a shaft drive and hence having less sideways leverage.
Pete
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Agreed - I certainly never changed the angle of the prop shaft on mine - but the prop change made a big difference. If Castlemarine's theory is right then why?