Tricky Raymarine HSB2 network glitch - expert help anyone?

jfm

jfm

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I have a tricky networking fault on Raymarine HSB2 gear. Anyone expert in this? (if you're not, it's a boring question, best skip it!)

The network is 4 screens, which I'll call A B C D. They are daisy chained in that order to make up a network

A is an RL80C running version 4.11 of Raymarine firmware
B is an RL80C, v4.11. 1 metre cable connects it to A
C is RL80CRC running v4.9, connected by 10m cable to B
D is RL70CRC running v4.11, connected by 1m cable to C

ABC were new 2004 and have been running happily for 2 seasons. I just added D, bort new 3 mths ago. All 4 units are correctly plugged into the network, with correct termination resistor at each end, etc

Here's my problem: If I put the CMap chart chip in C, A and B will display the charts, but not D. This tells me C is correctly networked so far as the wiring is concerned. If I put the cMap chartchip in D, then A and B can still see the charts (so D is correctly networked) but C cant see the charts. If I just connect C and D together (taking AB out of the network) then C and D will network and share charts in either direction. But if I return to putting all of ABCD into the network, whichever of CD that doesn't have the chart chip cannot see the charts, whereas AB can see the charts.

I have taken the network apart, put ABCD in a differnet order in the network, etc. But still cannot cure it, and the symptoms above are 100% repeatable no matter what order I put the network in, and no matter how many times I disassemble network and put it all back together again.

I'm stuck. Raymarine telephone tech people couldn't really help either. They say the v4.9/4.11 mix thing is ok, and wont be the cause of the problem

I have checked the physical wiring painstakingly. The network uses correct components, ie end resistors in A and D, and Y cables in B and C, all Raymarine original kit

Any ideas anyone? thanks
 
OK some off the wall stuff..stab in the dark....
Does the C-map chip have a maximum number of screens licence arrangement built into it??
Only Raymarine can tell you that and probably at a higher level than the standard help desk.
I'm not sure how they would implement it, but it's worth a look.

(or B)

Somehow you're running out of HSB 2 signal.
You may need a hub arrangement similar to a USB hub (they are similar)
to essentially feed the network in a star config rather than serially daisy chained.

As I say stabs in the dark....


Steve.
 
What happens if....

[ QUOTE ]
whichever of CD that doesn't have the chart chip cannot see the charts

[/ QUOTE ]
What happens if you put chart cartridges into both C & D?
 
Have you tried asking raymarine, I used their helpdesk a couple of months ago and got good response to the extent that the helpdesk guy responded several time to the same enquiry and eventually sent me a wiring diagram with colour coded cabling.
 
Thanks
I dont think CMap has that restriction, but I like the lateral thinking. Unfortunately C and D wont network properly even if AB are turned off!

Yeah i wondered about the power thing, like USB, but Raymrine say 10 screens work fine

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: What happens if....

Have not tried that. All tests done to date by having both chips in C or in D. I'll try one chip in each next time I'm on the boat.
 
Partly true. AB always get charts from network so they are fine. They have no chart slots in them so they need the network. The problem is in CD both of which have chip slots. If the chart chip is in C, then D cant see it, yet AB both can. If I move the chart chip to D, C cant see it yet AB still can. If I disconnect AB from network, and just connect C and D in a mini network, they work fine and share charts. All these symptoms are 100% repeatable, I have taken the network apart and fiddled around loads of times. Confusing eh?
 
Yeah had long chat. Helpful but no cure. They asked me to test resistance across various points, which I'll do next week. and they told me how to install 4.11 in the unit with 4.9, just to elimnate that as the source of the trouble. They said the prob is in the network cabling, not within the units themselves. I have all those ferrite block things around the cables, but I'm gonna have to test a load of things or buy new (expensive, eek) cables.

Thanks for the suggestions
 
OK so this isnt a network issue then.

If it only occurs on the units that have chip slots then it's something simple but obscure. It must be down to either the chip reader firmware or HSB adressing.
Have you tried borrowing another repeater only unit and replacing that for either D or C, ie removing one of the chip slots but still having four on the network.
If this works OK then it eliminates any network issue.
The issue has then to be associated with the chipped unit without the chip in.
It's probably the fact that the chipped unit is deemed by the HSB sofware to be the master, also the second chipped unit is contending for this position too. as you probably can only have one master unit then the one without the chip in is getting left out of the address register.
Definitely then one for 3rd line support at Raymarine to sort out.
It may be that this isnt a scenario that they've come up against before, and the firmware/software cant handle, as most peeps would probably have only one master unit and a number of repeaters
Let me know what transpires....very interested.

Steve.
 
Steve, thanks loads. That's a really constructive line of thinking.

I agree with you, it isn't the cabling (as raymarine have been telling me) it must be something in the units - firmware or addressing. The problem is so repeatable it can't be something dumb like me not plugging things in correctly, and I have been very careful on all that anyway.

First thing I'll do is upgrade the v4.9 unit to 4.11, to eliminate that. Raymarine supply 4.11 update on a self loading CMap chip, so this is easy.

Then I might have to get an unchipped unit to replace D, and work from there. Or see if there is something deep in the menus that allows me to select the unit as a "non-master" (I did actually look for that option, and didn't find it)

Stupid thing is, I was actually hoping to have 2x chipped units, as back up chartplotting capability. But if it messes up the network, I will have to forget that idea.

Thanks again. I'll report back. Boat is in France so it all depends when I get time to go down there for a weeknd
 
2x chipped units...

[ QUOTE ]
I was actually hoping to have 2x chipped units, as back up chartplotting capability. But if it messes up the network, I will have to forget that idea

[/ QUOTE ]
There should be no problem with this, each display in the network can theoretically access 6 remote chart cartridges as well as 2 local cartridges (ie installed in the actual display). So having 4 chart cartridges installed on your network is well within Raymarine's parameters.
 
manual says you can have two masters, & no settings for which is master - the master's the one with the sensor connected. So if radar plugged into C, C's the radar master. Fishfinder into D etc, or gps into D, D's the chart master. except both C & D have chart slots - so they're both chart masters. ermmm?

Or one could be radar and chart master - so supposedly not a master issue, according to Raymarine manual, but then it should work ok & it doesn't....

you didn't mention seatalk & nmea specifically - presumably they're also connected to both C & D?

only ask since manual says they shd be.



The High Speed Bus (hsb2) provides extremely rapid transfer of data between
master and repeater displays. With an hsb2 and a SeaTalk connection most data
available can be controlled and displayed by any hsb2 unit in the system.
(Guard zones cannot be viewed or controlled on the chartplotter display, nor
on a repeater display that is not directly connected to a scanner. Likewise,
radar timed transmission is not available on a repeater display).
Master functionality is provided by the display with the appropriate
transducer connected as defined in Table 8-3 .
Any combination of hsb2 series displays is possible – each display could
provide different master functionality. Each display repeats the master
functionality of the other displays.
For example, you could connect an hsb2 Radar display and an hsb2 Fishfinder
display (which provides both fishfinder and chart functions), to enable you to
display and control radar, fishfinder and chart data on either or both displays.
You can display some combinations, such as radar/chart, in half-screen
windows.
hsb2 Connection
Each hsb2 display is supplied with an in-line terminator fitted to the HSB
socket. When connecting two displays via hsb2, plug the cable into the in-line
terminator on both displays.
When connecting more than two displays via hsb2 you must fit an hsb2 splitter
to at least one HSB socket. The splitter is fitted only to displays that are not at
the end of the chain, and when installing the splitter you must remove the in-
line terminator. Figure8-12 illustrates the use of splitters and in-line
terminators in a multi-display system.
The displays must also be connected via SeaTalk (see SeaTalk® and NMEA In
on page8-24

Table 8-3: hsb2 Series Master Displays
Master Function Display type Transducer
Radar R70/RCPLUS, RL70/C/RC/CRC PLUS
R80/RC PLUS, RL80/C/RC/CRC PLUS
Any Pathfinder PLUS Series
Scanner


Chart RC520PLUS, RC530PLUS, RC631PLUS
R70RC PLUS, R80RC PLUS
RL70RC/CRC PLUS, RL80RC/CRC PLUS
L755RC PLUS, L760/RC PLUS, L1250/RC
Display includes a two-slot
chart cartridge


Fishfinder L755RC PLUS, L760/RC PLUS, L1250/RC Fishfinder transducer

 
Hmmm. Thanks. Tis confusing. Both C and D are capable of being chart masters, becuase both have chip slots. But I have only had the chips in one unit at once, and it hasn't worked. Though, it has worked when only CD are connected, and AB taken out of the network

All of ABCD are capable of being radar master, but C is the actual radar master becuase radar plugged into it.

Yes all units are seatalk networked and that works fine - can see seatalk info (depth, lat/long/COG, SOG, etc) on all 4 units. It's only the video HSB2 networking that is a problem.
 
Were you able to resolve the dual master issue? Perhaps some setting to tell one of the units it isn't chart master?

I've got a similar problem, with only two RL80CRC both of which have card slots.
 
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