Trial sail - when selling a boat

[l'escargot]

"It may be the way the OP phrased it but the impression that I got was that the purchaser wanted the RYA Skipper so that the OP didn't have to worry about being on board. That seems suspicious"
I didn't read it like that. It sounded to me like the purchaser was trying to avoid putting the seller to extra trouble. But then, I'm a trusting type.

I had a sea trial on my current boat (not a trial sail - and mainly to see if the engine operated correctly for a sustained period and there were no leaks as the boat had been out of the water for 18 months). The owners were quite happy for the broker, who was a commercial yachtmaster, to take me out to save having to take time off work and drive down to the south coast from London to do it themselves.

 

[mickyp168]

I bought my first boat 18 months ago and wouldn't have bought it without a sail with the owner. I knew it was a good boat but you can't tell if it will suit without having a sail in it in my opinion. That being said I know of an individual who used to do all his sailing by having a trial sail. He once had the Gaul to pretend to be interested in a 100K boat and wangled a long weekend sail in her over the channel. So you never know!

 

[rob2]

As I understand it the sale process has already progressed some way and the request for a trial sail is acceptable, though the condition of the owner not being present would never be acceptable to me. If the deposit has been paid subject to survey, then it would make more sense for the surveyor to be on board and not a "qualified" skipper. It's your boat and you are still the skipper. I well remember a new crew member with a string of qualifications stepping aboard and the first thing he did was to kick a mushroom vent, snapping it off. He was great company most of the time but slow to act when needed if he hadn't already dozed off in the aft quarter of the cockpit! Made a good sandwich and mug of tea though. I wouldn't let a crew take my boat out unless they were familiar and competent with it and its systems to my satisfaction. I wouldn't want it coming back with unexplained breakages or left with seacocks open and switches left on, hatches not secured, etc.

Talk to the buyer and establish what he wants to test. If he wants to know whether he likes the boat, that is an irrelevance at this stage. A buyer needs to do his homework and be sure of the marque of boat he is buying before putting down a deposit, which is a commitment to purchase. If that is where he is in his own head, then he will have to be put straight (in a helpful, friendly manner) and some compromise found before going on with the process.

Rob.

 

[united]

If you want to sell your boat, then embrace it. I went on one yesterday with the prospective owner, his surveyor, and the broker. Ended up having a great sail and learnt a bit about my hopefully 'old' boat in the process. I want to sell, so was prepared to put the effort in. As an aside, the surveyor made the same comments that Jonic often makes - a well presented boat at the right price will sell, even in the current climate. And that he doesn't half see some rubbish!

Good luck

 

[jac]

W

Talk to the buyer and establish what he wants to test. If he wants to know whether he likes the boat, that is an irrelevance at this stage. A buyer needs to do his homework and be sure of the marque of boat he is buying before putting down a deposit, which is a commitment to purchase. If that is where he is in his own head, then he will have to be put straight (in a helpful, friendly manner) and some compromise found before going on with the process.

Rob.

I think that's a key point. Is the purchaser doing a sea trial or a trial sail. What are his grounds for rejection / renegotiation?

Presumably it's a standard contract so sea trial, giving the prospective purchased the opportunity to back out if the engine spews oil or water everywhere or the sails are as baggy as a circus tent and the whole structure flexes in a way no normal boat should.

It is not an opportunity to back out because the boat doesn't point as well as you wanted, or had an uncomfortable ride or was slow.

Some posters seem to be suggesting that a trial sail can sell the boat (and indeed it might) but the trials offered by new boat dealers are not the same as those for private boats (even via a flash brokerage) and unless the owner specifically agrees to trial sails then it would be unwise to assume you can back out on the grounds of not liking the boat at sea.

 

[ghostlymoron]

But he's already paid a deposit subject to survey, so if he backs out he forfeits his deposit. But we need a full disclosure of the wording of the contract to make valid comment.
The 'accompanied/unaccompanied' issue is a red herring but its the vendors boat until the full agreed price is paid and I wouldn't let a stranger take my boat out on his own.

W

I think that's a key point. Is the purchaser doing a sea trial or a trial sail. What are his grounds for rejection / renegotiation?

Presumably it's a standard contract so sea trial, giving the prospective purchased the opportunity to back out if the engine spews oil or water everywhere or the sails are as baggy as a circus tent and the whole structure flexes in a way no normal boat should.

It is not an opportunity to back out because the boat doesn't point as well as you wanted, or had an uncomfortable ride or was slow.

Some posters seem to be suggesting that a trial sail can sell the boat (and indeed it might) but the trials offered by new boat dealers are not the same as those for private boats (even via a flash brokerage) and unless the owner specifically agrees to trial sails then it would be unwise to assume you can back out on the grounds of not liking the boat at sea.

 

[mattnj]

We had a similar situation a few years ago....the "professional" skipper didnt have a bloody clue and actually put a hole in the grp about 6" above waterline...when he hit pontoon at a fair lick....it was a nightmare, we were buying...I'd go along if I was seller.

 

[Richard10002]

We had a similar situation a few years ago....the "professional" skipper didnt have a bloody clue and actually put a hole in the grp about 6" above waterline...when he hit pontoon at a fair lick....it was a nightmare, we were buying...I'd go along if I was seller.

If it were my boat I would agree to the trial, but would want to be on board and be the skipper. if they wanted to test something, they could ask me, and we could put it to the test. I would not want some stranger, unfamiliar and, ultimately, not responsible for damage, in control of my boat.

 

[Neil]

When I sold my first boat, the guy wanted a trial go (it was a mobo, so fair enough). There was a minor problem at the start with the power tilt sticking, but I ran the boat at WOT for a couple of miles each way, only to hear from his 'advisor', that he wouldn't pay more than half the asking price. I told them no way, and stormed off in a bit of a temper.

When I sold my last boat, the buyer seemed committed, and wanted me to take him out and show him the ropes. I showed him how easy it was to launch and retrieve (backing up my presale assertions), showed him how to rig the gaff and set the sail correctly, we had a pleasant sail around the harbour on a sunny day and he was in no doubt he wanted the boat.

As a postscript, I'd been telling him how almost every time I took the boat out, someone would approach and say what a beautiful looking boat it was. Sure enough, we were chatting away and a stranger came up said exactly that to the both of us.

If I'd thought on, I might have primed a mate to pretend to be a stranger to say that....

 

[ex-Gladys]

When I bought Gladys in 2005, I was concerned about the impact of the wheelhouse on sailing performance, so I made this point clear to the Broker, who was only too pleased to accept an offer "Subject to Sailing Trial" with the accompanying 10% deposit.

I was glad I did. She was in Wellington dock in Dover, so I turned up when the tides were right and we cast off in preparation for the bridge/gate opening. The broker backed her out of the berth to port beautifully, impressing me with the manoeuvrability. However going ahead, she wouldn't turn to starboard, and we were looking at a forest of masts outside all looking to come in with us athwart the channel between the pontoons...

The good news was she turned to port so he did a "wheelbarrow turn" and we got out of it. However, the boat flat out (with 47 hp on tap) achieved no more than 1.5 knots. We returned to the berth and the owner had the boat lifted a few days later revealing a tubeworm encrusted prop and a 4' ball of mussels under the keel.

Second sea-trial revealed a wonderful handling and well sailing boat, so the purchase went ahead.

I don't see why ANYONE buys a very expensive boat without trying it out. Obviously with the owner or their agent aboard or in charge. You wouldn't buy an expensive car without a road test, so why, when boats are so much more individual than cars wouldn't you do the same?

 

[Tranona]

I don't see why ANYONE buys a very expensive boat without trying it out. Obviously with the owner or their agent aboard or in charge. You wouldn't buy an expensive car without a road test, so why, when boats are so much more individual than cars wouldn't you do the same?

If you go back over the many threads on this subject you will find that the vast majority of people do exactly that. They have usually decided the boat is what they want and the trial is (just like yours) to ensure the boat functions as described. It is unusual to have a condition that you can withdraw just on the basis that you don't like it, but of course if a seller has an unusual boat or is desperate to convince the buyer of its qualities then he may well see providing a trial useful. The deposit you paid moved you from an interested party to a buyer so the risk in your case of being a free loader is less.

 

[BruceDanforth]

We were offered a trial sale when I was a kid and we were looking to buy our second boat. Unfortunately, as a family, we agreed unanimously that it was bloody awful so we didn't buy it. I expect we looked like tyre kickers to the vendor.

Totally agree about the tyre kickers, the last trial sail I did on our 31 foot Sparkmans and Stephens in Rio Dulce, Guatemala we have up for sale went like this.

• Buyer convinces the broker she is looking for boats in the 20,000 to 26,000 US dollar range

• She looks at the boat with a relation and REALLY likes the boat and asks for a trial sail.

• I took the buyer out for a 3 hour trail sail (well, it was a nice day and I like sailing the boat)

• At the end the buyer said “Wow, I really want this boat so I am going back to California to harvest Marijuana until I have saved the money to buy the boat!!!”

I was not amused and told the buyer to either put down a deposit now or bug off.

So next time, I will be charging by the hour for trail sails, refundable on purchase

 

[davidpbo]

It rather depends on the type/value of boat, and how easy it is to do a trial sail. Boat in commission, easy access berth, time convenient to myself etc . I may not put any barriers up to a trial sale. Difficult/expensive to arrange I would want a degree of commitment from the purchaser.

Buying I may not want to go to the expense of a surveyor, deposit etc. if I was not sure the boat fulfilled my criteria.

When I bought my first and only boat I knew nothing about boats and sailing and bought it on the trailer after a survey.

 

[Richard10002]

It rather depends on the type/value of boat, and how easy it is to do a trial sail. Boat in commission, easy access berth, time convenient to myself etc . I may not put any barriers up to a trial sale. Difficult/expensive to arrange I would want a degree of commitment from the purchaser.

Like a deposit with the broker?? (presumably 10%)

 

[temptress]

Just wondering what the 'normal' approach to this is and would value the opinions of the assembled experts here.

We are selling our boat and a deposit has been put down after extensive viewings, there will be a full survey this week with her lifted.

However our broker has indicated that the buyer wants to take her out for a trial sail before finalising and has engaged a RYA skipper to do this 'so we don't have to worry about being there'.

1) Is it normal to have a trial sail, she's in the water so the engine was run for them this morning, the sails can be checked in situ etc etc.

2) Is it also normal for the buyer to engage a professional skipper to take your boat out without you, and if so what's the liability of that skipper - our broker blithely said ' you're insured aren't you?'

Do not see a problem with a trial sail but my boat I am the skipper. If the prospective buyer wants to bring along an advisor that is up to him.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I would never let an 'unknown', skipper my yacht in my absence, whatever his qualifications, experience or reputation.

After the damage has been done , sorry doesn't count for much and the hassle of getting repaired again can be very upsetting and time wasting.

Trial sail with owner.... after deposit has been paid and survey satisfies,
if it has to be lifted in then he/she pays (not you) in advance.

Someone who wants to buy will wait 'til you can be there.

S.

 

[[159032]]

Trial sail with owner.... after deposit has been paid and survey satisfies,
if it has to be lifted in then he/she pays (not you) in advance.

Someone who wants to buy will wait 'til you can be there.

So you want your bread buttered on both sides..
Selling anything, boats included - they are not special - consists of making the prospective purchaser want it and feel they are valued.
I do notice that many boats are on the market for a long time and this may be down to unrealistic pricing and this rather dismissive attitude of vendors.

"Well if you want a trial sail, give me 10%, non-returnable deposit and I'll see if I can fit you in for a sail. However, be aware you are now committed"

No, it's alright mate. I have found someone who seems to want to sell me a boat. And guess what, he wants me to be sure it's the boat for me.

 

[davidpbo]

It rather depends on the type/value of boat, and how easy it is to do a trial sail. Boat in commission, easy access berth, time convenient to myself etc . I may not put any barriers up to a trial sale. Difficult/expensive to arrange I would want a degree of commitment from the purchaser.

Buying I may not want to go to the expense of a surveyor, deposit etc. if I was not sure the boat fulfilled my criteria.

When I bought my first and only boat I knew nothing about boats and sailing and bought it on the trailer after a survey.

Like a deposit with the broker?? (presumably 10%)

No fixed view on that, sliding scale from:

Some meaningful and sensible communications.

I would not allow purchaser and whoever to take it out unaccompanied by myself or other person nominated by me. But as I said it would depend on circumstances.

 

[FistralG]

Just wondering what the 'normal' approach to this is and would value the opinions of the assembled experts here.

We are selling our boat and a deposit has been put down after extensive viewings, there will be a full survey this week with her lifted.

However our broker has indicated that the buyer wants to take her out for a trial sail before finalising and has engaged a RYA skipper to do this 'so we don't have to worry about being there'.

1) Is it normal to have a trial sail, she's in the water so the engine was run for them this morning, the sails can be checked in situ etc etc.

2) Is it also normal for the buyer to engage a professional skipper to take your boat out without you, and if so what's the liability of that skipper - our broker blithely said ' you're insured aren't you?'

It's not clear to me who has engaged a RYA skipper, the buyer or the broker?

What is an RYA skipper? What qualifications do they have? are they a professional or is that an assumption on your part?

If you do agree to their proposal make sure there is valid insurance cover in place and be prepared to deal with the consequences of any damage incurred.

 

[ghostlymoron]

"What is an RYA skipper? What qualifications do they have? are they a professional or is that an assumption on your part?"
I asked this question some days ago but there hasn't been an answer yet.
My view is that you need to be as obliging as you can when selling a boat to facilitate the sale but the buyer will realise that you're not going to hand it over to an unknown skipper.