Trial sail - when selling a boat

[Resolution]

I'v taken a few out for trial sails and without fail all were just tire kickers looking for a days entertainment... had a few genuine potential buyers ( I think of them as genuine because they later bought similar boats) all of whom were satisfied with a 20 minute look around, knew what they were looking at and knew what to look out for.
Tony.

Long ago my friends and I were looking to fill a dull weekend and someone arranged a trial sail with a chap who had a Folkboat for sale. We had no money and absolutely no intention of buying a boat. Not many scruples, either, in those days. Anyway we all had such a good day that we decided to buy the boat, the seller agreed to payment in instalments over several months and a deal was done. Forty years on and I've been sailing ever since.

 

[[159032]]

So next time, I will be charging by the hour for trail sails, refundable on purchase

Ah. That would be a charter then.......

Long ago my friends and I were looking to fill a dull weekend and someone arranged a trial sail with a chap who had a Folkboat for sale. We had no money and absolutely no intention of buying a boat. Not many scruples, either, in those days. Anyway we all had such a good day that we decided to buy the boat, the seller agreed to payment in instalments over several months and a deal was done. Forty years on and I've been sailing ever since.

There you go. If I am buying something I like to use my money to best advantage. If a vendor doesn't want to be helpful I probably won't buy. When selling items (boats) I have always offered a trial sail. Why not? It may be your last trip out on the boat.
I have even launched small boats to enable a trial before money has even been mentioned.

I rather think a lot of people are not used to selling stuff and not seeing things from the prospective buyer's perspective. So what if you get messed about? You've had another trip out on your boat.

I would want to be on board for all the previously stated reasons.

 

[Robin]

We had a sea trial on the 47ft mobo we lived on for a year in the USA but it was for our surveyor to do the engine trials, we had been given a trial ride when we first looked at the boat, by the owners.

When we sold that Mobo, we took the prospective buyers out and they also had a sea trial with a engine man, during which he said one engine was overheating and not reaching full revs, but only at at WOT, and we had to fix that before payment and final handover. It turned out to be a faulty temp. sensor coupled with a rev counter that was reading 300rpm slow so not too costly for us to fix, we filmed the retrial as evidence all was well and the boat was sold and left a few days later to start a Great Loop trip .

When we bought our current sailboat here we too had a trial sail, mostly to check the motor and the in-mast furling gear worked as stated, other than that we learned nothing really as there was no wind at all and the test area available was restricted by shallows everywhere.

When we sold boats in the UK we took potential buyers out ourselves. One that I bought we were allowed use of free for a weekend by the seller. The French buyer of our beloved Sun Legende 41 back in the UK bought her and took her away on a non-stop delivery from Poole to le Havre in a snowstorm in December, the entire trip done under sail with winds at F7-8 mid Channel. Prior to the delivery they had only inspected the boat in her berth and had no survey. WE had several alternate puchasers waiting in the wings too.

I would not be happy to let a 'RYA qualified' skipper take my boat for a test sail unless I was on board as well, I knew too many with all the qualifications that I wouldn't personally trust on a boating lake.( as well as some that were excellent of course)

 

[fireball]

We did a test sail on our first yacht (I would say boat, but that would be wrong as I've bought many dinghies before this one ... )

We'd already had a good look over it and decided we wanted it - put down the deposit and the surveyor had done his bit - we had a nice couple of hours out with the owners where we put all the sails up and generally they showed us how the systems worked and how they sailed the boat. It was really handy for us as it was our first foray into that sort of boat.
We didn't bother with one for our next boat as we were lucky enough to get a test sail with a forumite on his slightly smaller boat - and we'd learnt enough from that that we'd want the boat and that we could work the systems out for ourselves.

 

[jwilson]

Not a fan of "trial sails" - far too often the request is a huge red flag for a tyre-kicker.

However as your buyer has put down a deposit with the broker (and I assume the broker also by now has a contract signed by all parties in place) there is nothing wrong with a "sea trial" AFTER the on-shore survey. Doing it before (unless convenient and an enjoyment for you) is not usual at all.

As a broker I have done "sea trials" with buyers and sometimes their surveyors and/or engineeers - the purpose of which is to check things do work: engine OK under load, sails go up and down, log and depth work, etc. It's not (or should not be) so the buyer can find out if he enjoys sailing. I always prefer the owner to be on board as well however: almost every used boat has some peculiarity that the owner knows and I won't. And I was for some years Yachtmaster Instructor qualified, though long lapsed.

In your situation unless I knew and trusted the "RYA skipper" I'd go along myself, as the skipper.

 

[fireball]

I would not be happy to let a 'RYA qualified' skipper take my boat for a test sail unless I was on board as well, I knew too many with all the qualifications that I wouldn't personally trust on a boating lake.( as well as some that were excellent of course)

Hah - reminds me of our Dazed Kipper theory instructor - I wouldn't leave him in charge of a bathtub boat, let alone my tender or bigger!

 

[jac]

I would not be happy to let a 'RYA qualified' skipper take my boat for a test sail unless I was on board as well, I knew too many with all the qualifications that I wouldn't personally trust on a boating lake.( as well as some that were excellent of course)

+1

Went sailing with my cousin this weekend. He did DS in the summer and passed. ( Not surprising considering that he has been crewing for 40 years)

BUT

he's not a brilliant helm and struggled to work out how best to leave my admittedly tight berth. He is an RYA Skipper and was allegedly better than others who passed his course. No way would I let someone like that take her out, EVEN IF I WAS THERE. By all means come along, have a sail, let your skipper have a trial but there should only be 1 skipper and that's the person who bears the risk if it all goes wrong.

 

[KellysEye]

Under no cicumanstance let the RYA skipper and the potential buyer out on your boat unless you are there. Neither know your boat's systems or how she handles under power for docking or under sail.

 

[Richard10002]

If they have handed over a reasonable deposit, they are not tyre kickers, even if it has not yet been contractually bound, and is merely a "good faith" deposit. If the deposit is contractually bound subject only to satisfactory survey, then the trial sail should be academic, but it would be sensible to "keep the wheels of the sale oiled". I would want to be on board for the sail, and would change my schedule to make it happen.

I was present at the survey of Rogue in 2010. The surveyor was recovering from a hernia op. so welcomed my help in moving stuff and opening things up. At one point he spotted a crack in the hull - until i pointed out that it was a deep scratch in a piece of wood on which batteries. or Eberspacher, or something, were mounted. That would have made seriously bad reading in a survey, had i not been there to put him straight.

it would be easy for lots of things like this to crop up in a trial sail, and be pointed out to the surveyor, so fairly critical for the owner to be on board.

 

[ghostlymoron]

When I sold Anemone to a banker from the Isle of Man, I offered to help him sail it home from Wales, partly to help the sale go through. He got the benefit of my knowledge of the boat and systems and identified some items (water pump and toilet) which failed on the passage. I got a last sail in my/his boat and a couple of days sightseeing on the island free board and lodging and return fare home.
It's sometimes difficult to sell a boat and it does no harm to be helpful to a prospective buyer. An unhelpful attitude doesn't help. In the OPs case, the buyer is already committed to buying (or losing his deposit). I would certainly be present though.

 

[Thedreamoneday]

As someone who recently bought a new (to me) boat.

I viewed the boat on the hard, agreed a price subject to a survey an sea trial which was conducted by the surveyor and broker, I couldn't be there an neither could the owner but I certainly would have liked to be on board and it wouldn't have bothered me if the vendor was on board either. I'm glad the trial was done because it gave me confidence most things were fine but it identified a faulty auto pilot an a few small diesel leaks, all of which were rectified before I completed.

It wasn't an option to just pull out unless something major was identified and the vendor refused to rectify it.

The boat I sold, I agreed a price and took the new owner out for a couple of hours too.

I'd certainly want to be on board if I was selling or at least a representative on my behalf, what benefit is there of you not being on board??

 

[Chris_Robb]

Long ago my friends and I were looking to fill a dull weekend and someone arranged a trial sail with a chap who had a Folkboat for sale. We had no money and absolutely no intention of buying a boat. Not many scruples, either, in those days. Anyway we all had such a good day that we decided to buy the boat, the seller agreed to payment in instalments over several months and a deal was done. Forty years on and I've been sailing ever since.

Rudderloosen - I always thought your eyes were too close together:nonchalance:

 

[jac]

I'd certainly want to be on board if I was selling or at least a representative on my behalf, what benefit is there of you not being on board??

It may be the way the OP phrased it but the impression that I got was that the purchaser wanted the RYA Skipper so that the OP didn't have to worry about being on board. That seems suspicious

For anyone who has paid a deposit & arranged a survey to have a sea trial is 100% fine IMHO. It's equally fine to want someone experienced to come along. ( It's probably a good idea - a pair of eyes without rose tinted glasses) To expect the owner to just hand the boat over on the strength of a 10% deposit and say off you go seems perverse.

 

[Stork_III]

It may be the way the OP phrased it but the impression that I got was that the purchaser wanted the RYA Skipper so that the OP didn't have to worry about being on board. That seems suspicious

For anyone who has paid a deposit & arranged a survey to have a sea trial is 100% fine IMHO. It's equally fine to want someone experienced to come along. ( It's probably a good idea - a pair of eyes without rose tinted glasses) To expect the owner to just hand the boat over on the strength of a 10% deposit and say off you go seems perverse.

Theft by Deception is an exclusion of cover in GJW standard policy, probably many others too. Have yourself or your trusted representative on board, the broker (?) you pay him enough.

 

[Thedreamoneday]

It may be the way the OP phrased it but the impression that I got was that the purchaser wanted the RYA Skipper so that the OP didn't have to worry about being on board. That seems suspicious

For anyone who has paid a deposit & arranged a survey to have a sea trial is 100% fine IMHO. It's equally fine to want someone experienced to come along. ( It's probably a good idea - a pair of eyes without rose tinted glasses) To expect the owner to just hand the boat over on the strength of a 10% deposit and say off you go seems perverse.

I'd be worried not being on board than being on it!

As you say a sea trial/ system check is 100% acceptable (that's what I did) and as a purchaser I'd be concerned if the seller wouldn't allow it but to not want the owner on board or a representative does seem a bit fishy.

I also agree a boat can be difficult to sell so if it's a serious buyer then helping him realise his dream is a must.

 

[Mandarin331]

Thanks to all, much appreciated. We have no reason to doubt the buyer who's clearly very keen, we will take the advice given; trial sail only after survey, own safety gear and we will be on board for it. We're very happy to give them an overview of all the systems and help them get to know her.

 

[Richard10002]

Thanks to all, much appreciated. We have no reason to doubt the buyer who's clearly very keen, we will take the advice given; trial sail only after survey, own safety gear and we will be on board for it. We're very happy to give them an overview of all the systems and help them get to know her.

So it has to be lifted and back in the water for the trial sail. If I were the buyer, I'd want it left out of the water so i could do some jobs, perhaps antifouling amongst other stuff - so I would want my trial sail before it was lifted, thus before the survey.

Take them for a sail with their RYA Skipper before the survey, you have little to lose, (a bit of time??), and everything to gain.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Ah. That would be a charter then.......

Nope, it would be a non-refundable deposit and would be exactly what I'd offer if I didn't know how a boat was going to sail. Enough to cover the costs of lift-in or out and say £100 per hour for boat costing £50K+. Seems reasonable to me - I don't expect a free sail but nor do I expect to trust the word of the seller on how it sails. Ok, if it's a Bene 323 or or something like that then quite a few people will know exactly how it sails. I know exactly how a Stella, a Prior 35, a Jolina and quite a few Nicholson designs sail too, but that's purely because I happen to have done a fair bit of sailing on them.

 

[ghostlymoron]

"It may be the way the OP phrased it but the impression that I got was that the purchaser wanted the RYA Skipper so that the OP didn't have to worry about being on board. That seems suspicious"
I didn't read it like that. It sounded to me like the purchaser was trying to avoid putting the seller to extra trouble. But then, I'm a trusting type.

 

[Chris_Robb]

So it has to be lifted and back in the water for the trial sail. If I were the buyer, I'd want it left out of the water so i could do some jobs, perhaps antifouling amongst other stuff - so I would want my trial sail before it was lifted, thus before the survey.

Take them for a sail with their RYA Skipper before the survey, you have little to lose, (a bit of time??), and everything to gain.

Sounds sensible to do the trial sail before lifting. Get all the things out of the way like engine checks -does it overheat if pushed- etc which is frankly part of the survey.

We have not heard from the OP if the buyer has signed a standard contract yet. It would be strange for the broker to accept a deposit without a signed contract though.

Glad you have decided to be on board - as I read the original description, the buyer perhaps wanted to cause as little trouble to you as possible. The golden rule on selling is never loose control - you might not get it back again. Contract or no contract - the sale is not done until you have the money and the survey WILL bring a surprise or two.

Good luck.