Transferring ownership of French boat to UK citizen

[oliverthepirate]

Ahoy! I have recently been given (!) a small sailing boat which is currently moored in France. The owner is a friend of mine and moving to the Southern Hemisphere, and simply wants to hand over the boat to me.

The boat is a Jenneau 'Love Love', 22' (6.61m). I would like to keep her at her current berth in France, but I am a UK citizen and live in the UK.

At first, this seemed quite simple - draw up a bill of sale, transfer the insurance into my name, pay the port fees - and get that mysterious 'Acte de Francisation' stamped in the port with my name on it.

But there's the rub. I am not a French citizen, so I can't have the Acte de Francisation with my name on it.

What I think I should do, after the bill of sale and paying the mooring fees, is (deep breath):

1 - De-register her from the French register via a 'Radiation de Pavillion' form obtainable from the french port
2 - Register her with the SSR here in the UK
3 - Inform the insurer (French insurance) of the flag change
4 - Get the radio sent away and assigned with a new MMSI

Is that correct? Has anyone had any experience with this sort of scenario before? All worth it for a boat in the sun! I hope.

Many thanks for your help,

 

[yoda]

I think that is just about it. I will check with a friend as he bought a boat in France but bought it back to the UK.

Yoda

 

[Roberto]

But there's the rub. I am not a French citizen, so I can't have the Acte de Francisation with my name on it.

there is no problem in owning a French registered boat with a non-French nationality, myself for one but loads of other non-French people have their names on the "acte de francisation"

what is the exact objection having been made to you ?


add
you need not be a resident, though if you have a non-French nationality but you are French resident you will have to pay a (in your case very small) yearly tax.

 

[oliverthepirate]

Yoda, Roberto - thanks very much! Roberto, I had heard from the previous owner that to sign the Acte de Francisation I might need 'proof of address' - utility bill etc - and from what I could make out of this website, it seemed like I'd need a fair amount of documentation. Looking at it again (now translate is working better) perhaps that was for obtaining a new acte de francisation, rather than amending/adding to an existing one. I'm not resident in France and hold a UK passport - if it's possible to just keep her registered in France, that might streamline things.

Only slight hiccup there is that signing the A de F has to happen within one month of the bill of sale of the boat - and I happen to be getting married out of the country in two weeks! I think i can buy some time and get the bill of sale dated for the end of this month, and get down there by the end of February. Would be good if I could courier the A de F to the port or get it signed at a French Embassy, but I suppose that's pushing my luck. . .

This help is much appreciated, I spoke to a French lawyer about getting this sorted and they quoted £900 to draw up the bill of sale!

Cheers,
O

 

[Roberto]

Yoda, Roberto - thanks very much! Roberto, I had heard from the previous owner that to sign the Acte de Francisation I might need 'proof of address' - utility bill etc - and from what I could make out of this website, it seemed like I'd need a fair amount of documentation. Looking at it again (now translate is working better) perhaps that was for obtaining a new acte de francisation, rather than amending/adding to an existing one. I'm not resident in France and hold a UK passport - if it's possible to just keep her registered in France, that might streamline things.

Only slight hiccup there is that signing the A de F has to happen within one month of the bill of sale of the boat - and I happen to be getting married out of the country in two weeks! I think i can buy some time and get the bill of sale dated for the end of this month, and get down there by the end of February. Would be good if I could courier the A de F to the port or get it signed at a French Embassy, but I suppose that's pushing my luck. . .

This help is much appreciated, I spoke to a French lawyer about getting this sorted and they quoted £900 to draw up the bill of sale!

Cheers,
O

Hello,
there is absolutely no need of a lawyer nor any Embassy, a lot of paperwork but everything can be done by mail. The procedure is very similar even if you want to de-register the boat (radiation) in order to register into the SSR, so this has to be done anyway...

1st: sign the bill of sale in four copies (you keep two, the seller the other two) copies, pay the seller and take possession of the AdF (+ boat of course ). Make a copy of the AdF and keep it for yourself.
2nd. Within one month, send one original bill of sale (+ one photocopy), the original AdF (keep the photocopy for yourself you never know), a passport size photograph, a copy of you ID or passport, + one "fiche plaisance" link: http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/spipdgmt/pdf/fiche_plaisance__08_2006_cle556823.pdf
Attach a copy of this document, link:
https://www.formulaires.modernisation.gouv.fr/gf/cerfa_14501.do
this is where you, as a non resident, must indicate a French address (Election de domicile) which the administration will use to contact you (mainly once a year to send the tax document).
Should you wish to change the name of the boat, attach a paper asking them to modify the AdF with the new name.

The one month period is not strictly mandatory, it is there for fiscal reasons: the fiscal ownership is transferred when the Douanes receive the papers, so until that moment the old owner is liable for the DAFN tax (the yearly tax); as the tax is levied to who is the owner on Jan1st, if you still have to sign the bill of sale the 2015 tax will be due by the old seller anyway, so the one month period in your case is a lot more elastic.

This whole lot of papers has to be sent to "Douanes - Service Plaisance" of the town indicated in the AdF, the list of all "port d'attache" is indicated in Annex I here:
http://www.gironde.gouv.fr/content/download/2636/12260/file/douane.pdf
to obtain the address of the Douanes office:
http://www.douane.gouv.fr/Portals/0...rs/navigation-liste-des-bureaux-de-douane.pdf
(it seems to take a long time to load, otherwise just google "douanes navigation CITY" ex. "douanes navigation cherbourg" and you have the address).

You may ask the seller if he can provide the French address, "domiciliation", otherwise there are brokers etc which will do it for a fee. (Should you have problems, just drop me a line, I might need a UK address should I ever decide to register into Part1 so we might swap favours).


Then, once you receive the updated AdF with your name:
1. a copy has to be sent to "Affaires Maritimes" of the town indicated in the AdF (it's the first two letters of the immatriculation, ex. SM 12345=Saint Malo, DK 123456= Dunkerque, CH 12345 cherbourg etc)
2. you have to modify the radio licence (if the boat has one), ask the seller to give you one copy then send it by mail together with this document at the address indicated:
http://www.anfr.fr/fileadmin/mediatheque/documents/radiomaritime/FORM_DL_MMSI_AOUT14Mod.pdf



Anyway, the most important is Douanes.

regards
r

 

[bbg]

Ahoy! I have recently been given (!) a small sailing boat which is currently moored in France. The owner is a friend of mine and moving to the Southern Hemisphere, and simply wants to hand over the boat to me.

The boat is a Jenneau 'Love Love', 22' (6.61m). I would like to keep her at her current berth in France, but I am a UK citizen and live in the UK.

At first, this seemed quite simple - draw up a bill of sale, transfer the insurance into my name, pay the port fees - and get that mysterious 'Acte de Francisation' stamped in the port with my name on it.

But there's the rub. I am not a French citizen, so I can't have the Acte de Francisation with my name on it.

What I think I should do, after the bill of sale and paying the mooring fees, is (deep breath):

1 - De-register her from the French register via a 'Radiation de Pavillion' form obtainable from the french port
2 - Register her with the SSR here in the UK
3 - Inform the insurer (French insurance) of the flag change
4 - Get the radio sent away and assigned with a new MMSI

Is that correct? Has anyone had any experience with this sort of scenario before? All worth it for a boat in the sun! I hope.

Many thanks for your help,

That is exactly what I did when I bought a French boat. It was too much hassle trying to keep the boat registered in France without being resident there. UK registration on SSR is so simple and inexpensive there is no reason not to do it. You might need the former owner to complete the Radiation documentation and send that in to the douaniers.

 

[oliverthepirate]

Roberto -
I genuinely cannot thank you enough for this! I owe you a few crates of wine when I finally get down there.
Last question I promise - do you think this is alright to use as a bill of sale - http://worldwideyachtbrokerage.com/pdf/Bill_of_Sale.pdf - or would it be better to use a french version? Just don't want any hiccups with it coming back from the Douannes as inadmissable (or inintelligible?).

I'll let you know about the correspondence address (would it make sense to use the marina she's moored in ?), but I can certainly return the favour!

Again, thanks so much for your help - you've taken a big load off.

O

 

[oliverthepirate]

bbg - thanks! I think for the moment it makes sense to keep her french, as I won't be able to get down there for a little while to re-sign her in to customs etc (though perhaps this is a straightforward procedure), and from what Roberto says it seems I can change the French registration remotely. Just want to go with whatever's easiest until I can get down there! May change her over to the SSR later if it all gets to be too much. Have to say though, this is a very helpful forum!

 

[Roberto]

bbg - thanks! I think for the moment it makes sense to keep her french, as I won't be able to get down there for a little while to re-sign her in to customs etc (though perhaps this is a straightforward procedure), and from what Roberto says it seems I can change the French registration remotely. Just want to go with whatever's easiest until I can get down there! May change her over to the SSR later if it all gets to be too much. Have to say though, this is a very helpful forum!

I would definitely consider putting it into SSR, maybe at a later moment when you have more time?

A couple of French language versions of bill of sale "Acte de Vente" (I think it would be better for the Douanes, when I enquired about Part1 in the UK they said they need English sworn translation for every foreign document...):
http://www.beziers.cci.fr/port/_media/fichiers-pdf-acte-vente-navire.pdf
http://www.gironde.gouv.fr/content/download/2629/12232/file/acte_de_vente.pdf

You and the seller may actually sign both French and English versions now, so you will not have problems when you decide to register under the SSR.
A French version will surely be accepted by the Douanes, an English language one may be, but is a lot more doubtful.

 

[bbg]

bbg - thanks! I think for the moment it makes sense to keep her french, as I won't be able to get down there for a little while to re-sign her in to customs etc (though perhaps this is a straightforward procedure), and from what Roberto says it seems I can change the French registration remotely. Just want to go with whatever's easiest until I can get down there! May change her over to the SSR later if it all gets to be too much. Have to say though, this is a very helpful forum!

I think you can do everything remotely. I never visited the douaniers as far as I can remember. Just got the paperwork (I am pretty sure you can get the Radiation de Pavillon form online) and sent it by mail. I did not have to "sign in" with the douaniers with the new registration. Just did everything with both the French and UK authorities either by mail or online.

 

[oliverthepirate]

Thanks guys,

If it really is better to be on the SSR (or at least less hassle in the long run), then I can do that - my concern after speaking to the SSR on the phone was that the boat isn't at any time 'nationless'. Tricky, as a boat can't be on two registers at the same time, but also has to be registered somewhereat all times. . .


The other thing I was concerned about with the SSR/flag change is what to do with customs. With the A de F, I'm meant to notify the Douannes within one month of the sale/change of ownership. But if I buy the boat, change the registration to SSR - The boat hasn't gone anywhere, but because the flag has changed I suppose it could be seen as a 'new arrival' in some sense. Same boat, different flag. . . does it need to check in with customs?

I feel like I'm getting a very good deal on an international boat brokerage course here, thanks for the help!

O

 

[bbg]

I don't think a few days of overlap or a few days of being unregistered is going to cause anyone any concern. I've just checked mine and it seems there was one day of overlap. SSR 22 June and Certificat de Radiation 23 June. I'm surprised I timed it so well.

I never did anything with the douaniers to "clear in" the boat. Now that we are all in one big happy EU family I don't think there should be any need to "check in" with customs, any more than a British boat has to check in now, after crossing the Channel.

You could always ask the douaniers. Give them a call in the boat's home port and see if there are any formalities needed after the Radiation and registration on SSR.