Trailing Boat HELP!!!

[seamanstain]

Hello All,

I have finally got around to buying a boat and will need to trail it from Exeter to London. It's a fin keel boat and I just wanted to check how the boat should be secured to the trailer. At the moment it rests on the keel and 4 pad cradle, but the boat isn't physically attached to the trailer. Should I tie it down, or is there no need?! any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Many Thanks,
Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Freebee]

Yes It should be fastened to the trailer, I should try and get some of those ratchet tie down canvas strops that lorries use. If you use these just put sufficient tension on to tie down dont overtighten or damage may be done. Equally everything loose on board should be fastened down for the journey.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[VicS]

Yes tie in down securely. Pay particular attention to preventing the boat moving backwards, or forwards when braking, in the same way as you would use springs when mooring.

Move as much gear as possible from the boat to the car especially heavy items like anchor, chain, outboard, gas bottles etc in order to make the car to trailer weight ratio as high as possible.

You dont say how heavy it all is or what vehicle you will be using but be warned my 19 footer snakes like a side winder above 50mph. So be prepared to take your time.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

snaking trailer

a trailer shouldn't snake at 50, i towed a 23 footer at up to 60 without any tendency to weave. must be something wrong with your setup, calls for professional advice.

had a friend who conscientiously checked the towbar weight of his trailer, found it a bit light so put two concrete building blocks in the front. after some re-loading it was too heavy so he put a couple more in the back (no, don't ask). a few miles down the motorway, while his wife was driving, the trailer decided to take charge and nearly wiped them out. previously he'd made annual trips to greece with the rig with no problems.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[VicS]

Re: snaking trailer

I just mentioned the possibility of what could happen with an unfamiliar rig. I'm personally not bothered as I only rarely tow it. I know the problem so I take it slowly and avoid peak traffic times so that I dont bring the M25 to a total standstill during the rush hour.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[the_wanderer]

Snaking trailer.
Load the trailer with loose gear until it is JUST possible to lift comfortably at the towing cup. That will solve most snaking problems.
Happy trailing!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Avocet]

I've never quite been able to fathom the causes of snaking. I had a Leisure 17 which towed beautifully - didn't know it was there at any (sensible) speed. Then got an Evolution 22 - a lift keeler that should have been much more stable (lower centre of gravity) and it was absolutely HORRIBLE! Tried more nose weight, more tail weight, put an extra axle on the trailer and bought one of those anti-snake bars. the latter made more difference than anything else! Also, if your car is post-1998, it should, legally, have a maximum permitted trailer nose weight marked on the towbar. I think it's the "d" value and is commonly between 50 and 100kg

P.S. YES, definitely tie everything down! Is the cradle designed for transporting the boat or just storing it? I would be ver wary of using a storage cradle for transport unless I was confident it could put up with the loads. A storage cradle won't be designed to cope with the big forwards loads experienced when you brake.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jimmy20V]

Slightly off topic, but does anybody know of organisations in the south that may offer "trailer training"?. I dont plan to move my new boat around much, nevertheless i am terrified of destroying my new boat when i do.

I have been told that my trusty old (rusty) Jag with its self leveling suspension and meaty brakes is an ideal beastie for the job, but i don't know whether I am!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[seamanstain]

Thanks for all the information.

So i need to some how balance the trailer so that I can just lift it by the cup?? This is far more complicated than I thought. Just to answer some questions - its a Ford Mondeo towing it and the boat weighs around 850kg - the trailer is a double axled one. As its a fin keel boat, what would be the best way of restraing the movement forwards whilst braking? Should I wrap lines around the keel and lead them to the back of the trailer, or use the deck cleats up forward. Should I put a wooden chock under the keel to stop that sliding forwards??? I only intend to trail it once - i found it stressful enough with 1 laser behind my car let alone this.
Many Thanks again
Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[LadyInBed]

Re: Restraining fwd movement

Assuming that the boat is hoisted and not floated on and off the trailer.
Lateral angle iron bars with keel protection pads, bolted to the trailer forward and aft of the keel.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[VicS]

You say the boat weighs about 850kg, to this add say 200 kg for the trailer and you get 1050kg. The generally accepted max weight for towing is 80% of the kerb side weight of the towing vehicle so that means the car should be at least 1300kg. I suspect that might be more than a Mondeo but if you have one of the more powerful versions go for it. Heavy items moved from boat to car will all help.

Getting the nose weight right with a 4 wheel trailer is more difficult than with 2. Mine is a 4 wheeler but I'm afraid I dont know the answer.

If the boat has a metal keel it would be better to have wood between it and the trailer as metal on metal is a bit slippery.

Rig lines from the bow down to the front of the trailer, from somwhere near the stern (sheet winches should be good strong points) down to the back of the main trailer frame (not any flimsy extension intended for the numberplate etc).

Then from the bow to the back of the trailer and from the stern to points well forward on the trailer. Then as many others as you've got mooring warps for.

What state is the trailer in & has it been used for launching? For the distance you have to travel (presumably you will use the M5 and M4, although my wife prefers the A30 A303 M3 route) I would check out the tyres, wheel bearings and the braking system first.

Please don't be put off because you'll pobably arrive home wondering what all the fuss was about. Then you have to reverse onto the front drive but that's another story that nearly ended in the front porch!

To Jimmy20V : The Camping and Caravanning club do couses but I guess thats just for members.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[oldharry]

Re: Trailer training

The caravan Club do a comprehensive course on towing -er - caravans (surprise surprise!), but the basic skills and knowledge for towing vans is the same as for towing boats. The course covers all aspects of towing, loading, and the practicalities, including reversing. It also covers all the legal and safety side. You probably have to join the club to get on the course though....

Snaking is caused by incorrect load distribution. Its not just a matter of nose weight, but where the heavy items are on the load. All heavy items should be as near the axle as possible. Heavy objects on the ends of the load - particularly the aft end - will tend to increase the likelihood of snaking by their inertia.

So think about your boat stowage: a hefty outboard on its bracket at the stern, plus fuel, water and gear in the cockpit lockers well aft. Anchor and chain right in the nose of the boat - and basically just your food and bedding in the middle - stowed like that the outfit will almost certainly become unmanageable at any speed.

Underinflated tyres, or tyres that are running at or near their maximum permitted loading will also severely de-stabilise the outfit. Check whats fitted to your trailer - tyres have a rated maximum permitted loading in the information moulded on the sidewall, and if loaded anywhere near this figure (have it checkweighed before the Police do it for you and put you off the road as unsafe) will cause the trailer to roll and weave. Boat trailers carrying more than around half a ton nearly always need commercial rated tyres with thicker sidewalls and 6, 8 or more ply rating. The 'squashy' tyres on your car may give a superb ride, but are useless load carriers without the sophisticated suspension of your car to match them.

Finally pay special regard to the overall 'train weight' . This is a figure specified by the towing vehicle manufacturer as the maximum permitted all up weight of car and trailer with their loads. Again the Police will know this figure, and will refuse to allow you to proceed if you exceed it. This can be frighteningly expensive by the time you have hired a larger vehicle to come and tow your boat away.

Worst still if your trailer is not up to it or seen to be snaking unduly, a prohibition order may mean hiring a mobile crane and low loader to retrieve your boat, on top of the 'dangerous load' fine. (It has happened!).

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Avocet]

Re: Trailer training

Maximum "train"weight will appear on the chassis plate in the engine bay. It will have the 17 character "VIN" number along with four weights in kg. The first box will be the maximum permitted weight of the car alone. The second (or biggest) number will be the gross "train" weight. This is the maximum amount that the combined car and trailer can weigh. Obviously, the more the car is loaded, the less you can tow and vice-versa. The last two weights are the maximum permitted front and rear axle weights.

Hope this helps.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[andy_wilson]

Noseweight andd snaking.

Noseweight.

V. important that you acheive the relevant noseweight with the tow hitch at towball height with a twin axle trailer. This shouldn't be too difficult if the trailer was designed for standard cars but if it is too high you will have to move the balance of the weight onto the front axle to achieve the desired load, or raise the tow ball or lower the draw bar.

Snaking.

This is basically a pendulum effect with the weight of the pendulum being the combined drag of the tow, being overcome by the force of the towbar. When an outside force gives it a push it should settle down by itself after a few oscillatons.....

BUT

most accidents are caused by the driver panicing and trying to correct the snake, but simply amplifying the oscilations until they overcome the car. Like flying, big inputs into the controls = big surprises. Holding the wheel firmly and very gently correcting AND not over correcting the other way is the key. If you can contol a skid without it snapping out the otherway on you, you have the necessary feel in the seat of your pants. Putting the brakes on will in extremis cause the back to overtake the front, though the resistance of the tyres result in a dramatic amplification of the swing, until the site of the accident is reached. Lifting off is usually all that is required as only a few mph less will totally change the resonant frequency of your rig. It is perfectly feasable to brake hard in a snaking situation provided your overrun brakes are adequate and you hit the brakes just before the snake hits top dead centre. This will kill the snake in a stroke, unless your timing is wrong of course. Snaking is minimised by having a car with a good back end! Basically if a car handles well on it's own it will handle relatively well as a tow car. A loose back end will help amplify the oscillations so make sure your springs, dampers and rubber suspension / subframe mounts are up to the job, and the tyre pressures raised to reflect the load.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[oldharry]

Re: Noseweight andd snaking.

Cor lumme! Between us we look to have made this whole towing business a total nightmare, with boat trailers snaking and shedding their loads all over the M6, and evil Plods in 2 tone cars with 2 tone horns waiting at every second junction to pounce on the unwary boater!

Its not like that at all!

The truth is that, provided a) your rig is legal and b) you dont load and drive it above its limits - and it will soon enough make you feel uncomfortable if you do - it is all pretty straightforward stuff. As long as you are aware (and a newbie tower will be only too well aware!) that the family car is going to behave rather differently with a ton or so of boat on the back, needs more room to stop safely, and is no longer dads 'boy racer', then the vast majority of boats and their owners arrive perfectly safely at their destinations.

Snaking usually only occurs either if you are trying to slow down too quickly (and that can't always be avoided these days!) or if you have let the speed build up on a downhill run, and are unable to slow down safely. The common factor? Excess speed. Take it steady and there should be no problems.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[gjgm]

one tip i was passed was secure the rig to the trailer but DONT ratchet it down hard onto the trailer- there needs to be some "give" for the suspension, or every bump and jolt will be rammed straight into your hull. 1000kg boat isnt going to bounce off ! Hitch weight is commonly about 50kg- I guess just liftable as described above was good guess, but a pair of bathroom scales and a length of wood measured for the hitch to be at towbar height will give you some piece of mind, and help set it up. (Bigger 4*4 can go up to 100kg). Remember if you add gear afterwards it should be over axle so not to upset your balance again. As said above, trailing is/should be no big deal, but if your bearings are broken,trailer unbalanced, duff brakes etc you just may have a nasty journey. Try towing for 5 miles before the big journey to make sure brakes and bearings arent red hot. At least you are still close to home if something is wrong. Otherwise, just remeber the increased length and braking, and after 20 miles you ll wonder what the worry was....

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[snowleopard]

relax & enjoy it!

i found that towing a boat at 55 on the motorway is incredibly low-stress. you just sit there and let the world go by. i used to reckon on at most one overtake in 200 miles!

and what's more the truckers are nice to you. don't forget to flash to tell them it's safe to pull in in front of you.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[surekandoo]

Get someone else to do with a big 4 wheel drive or hire one and do it your self!

Snaking - generally due to not enough nose weight, and/or under-inflated radial tyres which have vey flexible sidewall and can "steer" the trailer once you get a wobble on. Trailer design also critical.

I confess to having done two complete involuntary 180 degree spins on the A1 when towing trailers of machinery some years ago. In both cases we were on the overrun i.e. going downhill. Very Very Scary. No damage though, no injuries, thank God.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[oldharry]

Re: DONT YOU BELEIVE IT!

< 1000kg boat isnt going to bounce off>

Oh yes it is - and surprisingly quickly too. If not lashed down what is going to happen to all that weight in an emergency stop? It will carry on moving - straight into the back of the towing vehicle. I have had a dinghy come in through the back window, and was once involved in retrieving a 20 footer that wrote itself and its towing vehicle off in a full emergecy stop on the motorway. When we arrived on the scene it looked as though the boat had jumped off its trailer onto the back of the car towing it! Very spectacular.....

Secondly, if not secured and restrained properly the load will move one every bump and jolt (and theres plenty of those in our 'modern' road system!). And every time you swing into a corner - particuarly if there is a reverse camber on the road to accentuate the movement.

The boat will get jolted about when being towed anyway, so the more firmly it can be attached to a trailer the better.

The heavier the load the bigger the forces of inertia acting on it, while in motion. Quite enough to overcome the quite low friction between two flat metal surfaces. (Keel to chassis), and even less if the boat is sitting on rollers - whats to stop it just rolling off unless its secured?! Dont laugh - it happened quite recently - on the M40 I think.

The system that gave us most amusement was a bilge keeler which had been actually bolted to its trailer. The bilge pads on the trailer had side flanges to help locate the boat and stop it sliding sideways - so far so good. Owner had then got his Black and Decker, and drilled through the flange and the bilge keel plate , and bolted them together with an 8mm S/S bolt each side. Unfortunately when he arrived the bolts were so badly bent he could not get them out again, and they had to be cut off with a gas torch!

<hr width=100% size=1>