traditional long-keeled yachts are the most intrinsically seaworthy.

geem said:
Yep, we have friends who never use the engine. Not us. The engine is there to be used but if we can sail rather than engine then life is better. We often sail past yachts that are engining whilst we are sailing! We most often sail past catamarans here that are motorsailing. I have occationally thought, wow, this Lagoon is sailing well! We have slowy caught them up to discover they have their engine on! Always nice to sail past in those situations.
Last summer we did an anticlockwise cruise around the western Caribbean. We left the ABCs for Haiti, Cuba, Bahamas, Panama, Columbia and back to ABCs. Our friends sat in a marina for four months and said wow, you have done a lot of motoring! Panama and Colombia winds are very light that time of year. We are not sailing purists which is why we got to visit lots of great places in the light wind summer months. Better than siting in a marina paying fees in my opinion.
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Me too. Only time I am a purest is on passages of more than a week when the fuel would run out... Did the Caribbean to Washington DC like that but ABC to Panama didn't use the engine at all... Just like the Greeks and Romans had slaves in the galley we have iron sails in the hull and get to far away places with strange sounding names.....
 
Sea Devil said:
I think we are missing the purpose of owning a boat.

I would argue that 99% of all boats in new condition or cared for condition, are more or less equally seaworthy. When I kept my boat(s) in La Rochelle France the ´marina newsletter´ used to describe the boats parked there as 2nd homes. That is exactly what the vast majority of modern boats are. An apartment on the water which is capable of being taken to sea and sailed to mainly nearby places. (A water version of the mobile home or caravan). Modern legislation ensures that they are probably not going to sink in bad conditions except as a result of bad seamanship.

The long keel boats of the 70´s were designed to a traditional formula that suited the sailing demands of those days. The market evolved and couples or entire families started to demand more living comfort, space, bigger beds nice galleys and bathrooms so modern boats evolved. They are entirely seaworthy and comfortable 2nd homes.

Discussion of boats for extream conditions is somewhat academic. Hardly anyone on this forum has been out unknowingly in more than a F8 and sailing in those conditions is more to do with size than design. In a 22ft boat its hell on earth in a 43 ft boat its a bit unpleasant trying to go to windward.

The fact there are so many Contessa, Nic, Rival, Elizabethan, Halmatic long keelers around is due to the excellence of the construction when nobody really knew a lot about Fibreglass. As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread today they retail 2nd hand at modest prices and are a wonderful way to get on the water but perhaps not that comfortable internally.
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That is all quite true. But I will trade quite a lot of the modern boat’s comforts if I can get an older boat that will do the job at a fraction of the price.
 
>You might not be under canvassed in a F6 but F3 is where lots of sailing is done or more likely engining if you are under canvassed...... you see so many stumpy masted yachts engining or motorsailing when well canvassed designs are still sailing along

We reached hull speed when the apparent wind was 20 knots.
 
KellysEye said:
>You might not be under canvassed in a F6 but F3 is where lots of sailing is done or more likely engining if you are under canvassed...... you see so many stumpy masted yachts engining or motorsailing when well canvassed designs are still sailing along

We reached hull speed when the apparent wind was 20 knots.
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Exactly. You are under cavassed.
 
geem said:
Exactly. You are under cavassed.
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The Pardy’s wrote about this, the gist of which was that folks did not sail with light wind sails. Their experience was that suit of headsails should include a ghoster that sheets to the quarter. The ubiquitous roller reefing head sail does not address the ghoster weight and area, so many older yachts are undercanvassed in light winds as you say.

On a yacht I used to cruise on, with hanked on sails, we sailed with a ghoster and easily got good speed in lighter winds. The sail wardrobe did take up a lot of space.
 
>Exactly. You are under cavassed.

Wrong a heavy displacement boat takes longer to get going than a light displacement boat. The other thing is the main mast is smaller than normal for a 38 foot lightweight boat because there is a mizzen mast with a third sail. If I was to put the mizzen mast on top of the main mast It would longer than the mast of a 38 foot sloop.
 
KellysEye said:
>Exactly. You are under cavassed.

Wrong a heavy displacement boat takes longer to get going than a light displacement boat. The other thing is the main mast is smaller than normal for a 38 foot lightweight boat because there is a mizzen mast with a third sail. If I was to put the mizzen mast on top of the main mast It would longer than the mast of a 38 foot sloop.
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The reduced mast height and boom length as a result of having the mizzen mast leaves you with less windward sail area. The mizzen is of little use when sailing closer than 50degrees to the apparent wind. Being a long keel boat and a ketch is a double hit for you. You dont have the low centre of gravity of a deep fin keel so you cant carry a large, tall sail plan. Your long keel gives you poor windward performance. Add in the heavy displacement and the lack of sail area in light winds means you will need your engine when going to windward.
There is nothing wrong with ketches per say. Like all designs, there are good ones and bad ones. Our ketch has a tall main mast. We have a shorter boom than the sloop version as a result of the mizzen mast but cruising in company with a slooped rigged sister ship over many hundreds of miles we only lose out very slightly to windward in light winds and not at all in strong winds. Off the wind we are quicker. When you dinghy past our boat you can see compared to other boats that we have a large rig even though we are a ketch. We are deep draft 7’2”. We have 6000kg of encapsulated lead ballast. We are heavy displacement but not a slow boat. In light winds we point at 35deg to the apparent wind with minimal leeway and make good speed. Between the islands here we average 7 to 8 kts with wind typically on the beam. Our best 24hr run is 197nm. Gutted that we didnt make 200nm
 
Hi Praxinoscope - I have a question about the Invicta 26 yacht type.
Is it possible to contact you about this?
PS I am not certain how a forum works. What is the best way to contact you without troubling the other forum members?
 
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