traditional long-keeled yachts are the most intrinsically seaworthy.

I suppose a log of wood is pretty seaworthy but it is sadly lacking in other design aspects which make sailing enjoyable.
 
Long keel yachts are great to sail and encompass all the attributes that make sailing enjoyable,, my old Invicta 26 was a dream to sail, light on the helm, stable in a blow and comfortable in all conditions. OK not so good astern under engine, but once you had learned the trick no worse than any other yacht.
The only reason I sold her was to adopt a different mooring not really suitable for a long keel and to reach some harbours that were difficult for her.
 
KellysEye said:
From the YBW article on the Golden Globe race.
Click to expand...


The trouble with the OP is the definition-or lack of-the term "Seaworthy"

My last two vessels have been heavy long keelers, albeit with the patent Island Packet shallow draught" Full Foil Keels "

When at sea in moderate conditions the motion of the vessel is slow and soft compared to flatter, lighter more contemporary fin keel and spade rudder vessels-of which I also have owned two. It is far more pleasant and quieter with hardly any slamming, even when in wind over tide conditions where the odd big hole in the water appears.

But is it more seaworthy?

I cant say, but in a tight Marina or going astern, I and First Mate wish we had an easier to manouver vessel!
 
Praxinoscope said:
Long keel yachts are great to sail and encompass all the attributes that make sailing enjoyable
Click to expand...
All the attributes that make sailing enjoyable to you.
I want a yacht that is responsive, fast - even in light airs. A boat that will plane under the right conditions. Good (excellent) upwind performance. Comfortable and spacious below (which probably means a bit beamy for a long keel)
Give me a nice fin keeler any day...
 
STOL71 said:
Seaworthy, keel tends to stay on, easy to heave to, good sea motion, keep their course - very enjoyable sailing!
Click to expand...

I am sure that are all these but they are also slow compared to a fin and skeg boat of the same size. We have two sets of friends who have just sailed from Panama to the Marquesas. 4000nm distance. The Island Packet 45 (modern long keel) set off 5 days before Trintella 45 (fin and skeg). The Trintella passed the IP and arrived a day earlier than IP in to Marquesas. To take six days out of a boat of the same size on such a trip shows the vast difference in performance.
The Trintella is actually a heavier boat than the IP!
 
rotrax said:
The trouble with the OP is the definition-or lack of-the term "Seaworthy" .....
Click to expand...

I am not so sure it needs to be defined in the context of the article. Also from the article I do not think that this is a conclusion either. At least one boat split its deck and hull after having a window panned in, a few had to be abandoned, one was pinned down after it got flooded by a huge wave, some were rolled over or pitchpoled and one cracked their mast. In fact the article suggests that they are not seaworthy for the conditions encountered if taken at face value: slow, easily capsized in storm conditions and prone to mast breakages.

The article as well as RKJs analysis is poor when it comes to trying to understand lessons and opens more questions than it answers. Then again, all the tactics and preparations for heavy weather are discussed in numerous books and articles. The intrepid voyager or racer can easily prepare themselves by careful research.
 
It is an interesting subject having decided on an Island Packet 50 foot.

There are times I wish the performance was a little more scintillating.

However, I know it is a compromise.

I will sail all day and night over 7 knots with minimal fuss in any wind that is enough up to winds that would be exhausting for most people in a fin keeler. The action is relaxing and the boat will almost sail itself. Not much really troubles her.

I have as much room as I could find in any boat the same length. There is space everywhere - enough for a full sized washing machine, dryer, chest fridge and freezer, dive compressor, 600 gallons of liquid and all the toys to make living on board comfortable.

So, a fin keeler may well get there first if the crew stay on the pace, but they will not be anywhere near as relaxed or as comfortable, and if they dont stay on it, they may well fall behind as this demonstrates;

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/island-packet-485-voyager-thats-true-form

I dont want to hit anything but it probably wouldnt be the end of the world. I dont want to be sailing in a gale or more, but it is very unlikely to trouble her or her rig, and dont want to be forever triming the sails with guests that might not always know what they are doing, and I dont need to, she will carry all her sail in surprsing amounts of wind, and I do want the capacity to motor without thinking about running out of fuel (after all nearly everyone you talk to spends way more time using the engine on passage than you might imagine) and happy that I could steam half way across the Atlantic if I really wanted to (I dont).

So I know she is a compromise. I grew up racing twin trapeze dinghies around the cans so I like speed, but speed is only part of the reality of yacht owning. Boats are often for living on, otherwise they usually end up not being used, be it just comfortable to overnight or weeks on board, on the whole people want to feel safe especially long blue water, and they definitely dont want to be constantly fixing wear and tear - all of this a fin keeler does well, so I am willing to trade that for a few knots and a few hours - after all I am not racing, and I am meant to be enjoying the time and sea, and not worrying about crossing the line first.

I often do get there first mind you and it always brings a small smile when they say I thought IPs were slow.
 
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jamie N said:
Folkboat with a 360° outboard, such as a Honda 2.3, covers all of the above. :encouragement:
Click to expand...

I started sailing with a Folkboat with an inboard engine, about forty years ago. With your outboard, what speed to windward can you manage in a short choppy sea?
 
ip485 said:
It is an interesting subject having decided on an Island Packet 50 foot.

There are times I wish the performance was a little more scintillating.

However, I know it is a compromise.

I will sail all day and night over 7 knots with minimal fuss in any wind that is enough up to winds that would be exhausting for most people in a fin keeler. The action is relaxing and the boat will almost sail itself. Not much really troubles her.

I have as much room as I could find in any boat the same length. There is space everywhere - enough for a full sized washing machine, dryer, chest fridge and freezer, dive compressor, 600 gallons of liquid and all the toys to make living on board comfortable.

So, a fin keeler may well get there first if the crew stay on the pace, but they will not be anywhere near as relaxed or as comfortable, and if they dont stay on it, they may well fall behind as this demonstrates;

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/island-packet-485-voyager-thats-true-form

I dont want to hit anything but it probably wouldnt be the end of the world. I dont want to be sailing in a gale or more, but it is very unlikely to trouble her or her rig, and dont want to be forever triming the sails with guests that might not always know what they are doing, and I dont need to, she will carry all her sail in surprsing amounts of wind, and I do want the capacity to motor without thinking about running out of fuel (after all nearly everyone you talk to spends way more time using the engine on passage than you might imagine) and happy that I could steam half way across the Atlantic if I really wanted to (I dont).

So I know she is a compromise. I grew up racing twin trapeze dinghies around the cans so I like speed, but speed is only part of the reality of yacht owning. Boats are often for living on, otherwise they usually end up not being used, be it just comfortable to overnight or weeks on board, on the whole people want to feel safe especially long blue water, and they definitely dont want to be constantly fixing wear and tear - all of this a fin keeler does well, so I am willing to trade that for a few knots and a few hours - after all I am not racing, and I am meant to be enjoying the time and sea, and not worrying about crossing the line first.

I often do get there first mind you and it always brings a small smile when they say I thought IPs were slow.
Click to expand...

So, to sum up your lengthy post, the best boat for you is the one you own.

Where have I consistently read that before?

Oh, here :sleeping:
 
ip485 said:
It is an interesting subject having decided on an Island Packet 50 foot.

There are times I wish the performance was a little more scintillating.

However, I know it is a compromise.

I will sail all day and night over 7 knots with minimal fuss in any wind that is enough up to winds that would be exhausting for most people in a fin keeler. The action is relaxing and the boat will almost sail itself. Not much really troubles her.

I have as much room as I could find in any boat the same length. There is space everywhere - enough for a full sized washing machine, dryer, chest fridge and freezer, dive compressor, 600 gallons of liquid and all the toys to make living on board comfortable.

So, a fin keeler may well get there first if the crew stay on the pace, but they will not be anywhere near as relaxed or as comfortable, and if they dont stay on it, they may well fall behind as this demonstrates;

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/island-packet-485-voyager-thats-true-form

I dont want to hit anything but it probably wouldnt be the end of the world. I dont want to be sailing in a gale or more, but it is very unlikely to trouble her or her rig, and dont want to be forever triming the sails with guests that might not always know what they are doing, and I dont need to, she will carry all her sail in surprsing amounts of wind, and I do want the capacity to motor without thinking about running out of fuel (after all nearly everyone you talk to spends way more time using the engine on passage than you might imagine) and happy that I could steam half way across the Atlantic if I really wanted to (I dont).

So I know she is a compromise. I grew up racing twin trapeze dinghies around the cans so I like speed, but speed is only part of the reality of yacht owning. Boats are often for living on, otherwise they usually end up not being used, be it just comfortable to overnight or weeks on board, on the whole people want to feel safe especially long blue water, and they definitely dont want to be constantly fixing wear and tear - all of this a fin keeler does well, so I am willing to trade that for a few knots and a few hours - after all I am not racing, and I am meant to be enjoying the time and sea, and not worrying about crossing the line first.

I often do get there first mind you and it always brings a small smile when they say I thought IPs were slow.
Click to expand...

I dont disagree with the sentiment with regard to to comfort but size for size, 20% slower than a 1980s Van De Stadt that is very heavily loaded but is also a very comfortable boat is a big hit to take. Being out in the ocean for an extra week or more is just unnecessary.
 
but if you look at ARC results for IPs for example (especially the larger ones) that is very unlikely.

This is just the first I Googled;

Cruising DivisionClass BNr. Boat NameDesignFlagTCFFinish TimeEng. Hrs Corrected Posit.48 SolferinoHylas 46GBR0.99518/ 22:59:0010.356/00:46:50121 Andante of MerseyIsland Packet 485GBR0.98418/ 22:07:1517.006/08:08:48251 The Last of the Normal Swan 47USA0.96019/ 13:47:3013.086/13:50:233People52 VivaHallberg Rassy 42F GER0.94719/ 10:35:0020.676/19:26:11442 Private AffairMoody 47GBR0.95119/ 13:56:3641.558/05:06:43541 Pipe DreamIsland Packet 420GBR0.92919/ 00:25:0075.089/10:42:526
 
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