Trader fuel efficiency?

Just to add a different view to the very understandable one from PS:

I bought a full D trawler back in 2000, when both myself and swmbo were still mad busy with the rat race, just because we fancied the idea of some slow cruising, coming from an open cruiser with which we mostly whizzed around at 35+ kts.
Back then, we simply accepted that there was a limit to where we could go at 9 to 10 kts for any given timeframe, and we didn't miss the larger weekend range of the previous boat one bit.
In the recent years, having more time, we slowed down further - rarely going above 8 knots for more than a few minutes at a time, just to spin the engines a bit.
But while we literally spend more time onboard than at home now, in terms of distances we are cruising much less than we used to.

My (very personal, needless to say) conclusion after all this time is that boats are meant to enjoy the sea, not to go places.
Life's too short to use boats for travelling, even at 50 knots. 500 with a jetliner is more like it! :cool:
 
MapisM said:
Just to add a different view to the very understandable one from PS:

I bought a full D trawler back in 2000, when both myself and swmbo were still mad busy with the rat race, just because we fancied the idea of some slow cruising, coming from an open cruiser with which we mostly whizzed around at 35+ kts.
Back then, we simply accepted that there was a limit to where we could go at 9 to 10 kts for any given timeframe, and we didn't miss the larger weekend range of the previous boat one bit.
In the recent years, having more time, we slowed down further - rarely going above 8 knots for more than a few minutes at a time, just to spin the engines a bit.
But while we literally spend more time onboard than at home now, in terms of distances we are cruising much less than we used to.

My (very personal, needless to say) conclusion after all this time is that boats are meant to enjoy the sea, not to go places.
Life's too short to use boats for travelling, even at 50 knots. 500 with a jetliner is more like it! :cool:
Click to expand...

Well said. Plus 1
 
MapisM said:
Just to add a different view to the very understandable one from PS:
My (very personal, needless to say) conclusion after all this time is that boats are meant to enjoy the sea, not to go places.
Life's too short to use boats for travelling, even at 50 knots. 500 with a jetliner is more like it! :cool:
Click to expand...

Very interesting post, thanks.

I think our base requirement is for travel & adventure, but in a way that we can bring our home with us. A bit like a motorhome I suppose... but we like the sea better than roads.
 
If I were in your shoes I would say the Elling would be a great choice. I would go single engine with bow and stern thrusters. My thrusters were integrated into one control meaning I could twist her around and put her pretty much where I wanted. Elling is a bullseye in my humble opinion bar one point. We really looked at them, my wife was a no to the Elling because all the living space was down below and you could not see out easily on a Sunday afternoon when the fun starts in the marina�� The Broom had all the living space much higher up.
 
Understand about the living space, wifey actually likes the fact that the main salon is a little hidden.

There is the pilot room, which gives a good view.

helm.jpg
 
Some years ago there was a poster called RickP (I think) who had an Elling E3 and, as far as I can recall, he was very impressed by the boat. It's possible that some of his old posts are still searchable although finding anything on here has never been easy.
 
These are owner notes from an Elling E3 that has recently been sold. The broker suggested that this wasn't even with a clean hull etc. It is unlikely that you will see this sort of economy from anything of similar size.

350fuel.jpg

However, I think you will find that something like a Trader 50 has rather more space inside than an E3/4, and a nearer size comparison might be with a more economical Trader 42.
Another thing to maybe consider is that although all boats roll in some conditions, especially unstabilised disp and semi disp boats, some roll more easily than others. Of course, this may or may not be a major consideration for you. However, having clocked over 1300 hours in varied conditions in a Trader 42 and having been on an E3 as well as accompanied an E4 on a passage, I can safely say that while the T42 rolls in a beam sea, the Ellings roll even more. To the extent, that the E4 I set out with had to alter course and dog-leg to our mutual destination. Hopefully not a deal breaker for you, just something to bear in mind before taking the leap.
 
MapisM said:
Just to add a different view to the very understandable one from PS:

I bought a full D trawler back in 2000, when both myself and swmbo were still mad busy with the rat race, just because we fancied the idea of some slow cruising, coming from an open cruiser with which we mostly whizzed around at 35+ kts.
Back then, we simply accepted that there was a limit to where we could go at 9 to 10 kts for any given timeframe, and we didn't miss the larger weekend range of the previous boat one bit.
In the recent years, having more time, we slowed down further - rarely going above 8 knots for more than a few minutes at a time, just to spin the engines a bit.
But while we literally spend more time onboard than at home now, in terms of distances we are cruising much less than we used to.

My (very personal, needless to say) conclusion after all this time is that boats are meant to enjoy the sea, not to go places.
Life's too short to use boats for travelling, even at 50 knots. 500 with a jetliner is more like it! :cool:
Click to expand...

Just thinking the exact same thoughts
+2
 
stillwaters said:
These are owner notes from an Elling E3 that has recently been sold. The broker suggested that this wasn't even with a clean hull etc. It is unlikely that you will see this sort of economy from anything of similar size.



View attachment 63154

However, I think you will find that something like a Trader 50 has rather more space inside than an E3/4, and a nearer size comparison might be with a more economical Trader 42.
Another thing to maybe consider is that although all boats roll in some conditions, especially unstabilised disp and semi disp boats, some roll more easily than others. Of course, this may or may not be a major consideration for you. However, having clocked over 1300 hours in varied conditions in a Trader 42 and having been on an E3 as well as accompanied an E4 on a passage, I can safely say that while the T42 rolls in a beam sea, the Ellings roll even more. To the extent, that the E4 I set out with had to alter course and dog-leg to our mutual destination. Hopefully not a deal breaker for you, just something to bear in mind before taking the leap.
Click to expand...

Having also owned a Trader 42 and done very similar hours in her, some of which was in company with an Elling E4, I totally concur with these conclusions. On one occasion we passed the Raz de Sein in company in a quite heavy ground swell. Both boats rolled but the Elling was undoubtedly less comfortable. IMHO the Trader will also provide much more useable accommodation length for length.
 
MapisM said:
My (very personal, needless to say) conclusion after all this time is that boats are meant to enjoy the sea, not to go places.
Life's too short to use boats for travelling, even at 50 knots. 500 with a jetliner is more like it! :cool:
Click to expand...

So you've just bought a houseboat then have you? :D:D:D
 
stillwaters said:
So you've just bought a houseboat then have you? :D:D:D
Click to expand...
Darn, I should have thought that eventually someone could remember when I began thinking about that in this thread, already one year ago... :D :D :D

Actually, I don't think it's so much about the type of boat/hull/whatever, but rather the use you make of her. :encouragement:
 
stillwaters said:
These are owner notes from an Elling E3 that has recently been sold. The broker suggested that this wasn't even with a clean hull etc. It is unlikely that you will see this sort of economy from anything of similar size.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pic. I think I've seen the same image. Nice figures!

stillwaters said:
However, I think you will find that something like a Trader 50 has rather more space inside than an E3/4, and a nearer size comparison might be with a more economical Trader 42.
Click to expand...

My wife & I have literally just been talking about this. Our thoughts were how can a 50' Trader appear to have more lot space than a nearly 50' Elling. It just seems odd.

stillwaters said:
Another thing to maybe consider is that although all boats roll in some conditions, especially unstabilised disp and semi disp boats, some roll more easily than others. Of course, this may or may not be a major consideration for you. However, having clocked over 1300 hours in varied conditions in a Trader 42 and having been on an E3 as well as accompanied an E4 on a passage, I can safely say that while the T42 rolls in a beam sea, the Ellings roll even more. To the extent, that the E4 I set out with had to alter course and dog-leg to our mutual destination. Hopefully not a deal breaker for you, just something to bear in mind before taking the leap.
Click to expand...

Understand the rolling, we may have to live with it. I'm pretty sure that we could never afford stabilisation. Perhaps it rolls more because the Elling is lighter?
 
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IDAMAY said:
Having also owned a Trader 42 and done very similar hours in her, some of which was in company with an Elling E4, I totally concur with these conclusions. On one occasion we passed the Raz de Sein in company in a quite heavy ground swell. Both boats rolled but the Elling was undoubtedly less comfortable. IMHO the Trader will also provide much more useable accommodation length for length.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

I was wondering how it could be that 2 boats of approximately the same size could have such differing amounts of space?
 
It's mostly to do with how the space is used. The Elling has much of its living space below. The pilot house is really quite small - fine at sea but not large enough for much socialising. Also take a look at how the beam is used. I am not sure of the differences but you may well find that Traders carry their beam further forward, creating more volume. Trader aft decks are also more useable than Ellings as they are covered providing protection from the elements, either rain or shine! Some Ellings may have aft deck biminis to provide a degree of protection.
 
Orange said:
I was wondering how it could be that 2 boats of approximately the same size could have such differing amounts of space?
Click to expand...

IDAMAY said:
It's mostly to do with how the space is used. The Elling has much of its living space below. The pilot house is really quite small - fine at sea but not large enough for much socialising. Also take a look at how the beam is used. I am not sure of the differences but you may well find that Traders carry their beam further forward, creating more volume. Trader aft decks are also more useable than Ellings as they are covered providing protection from the elements, either rain or shine! Some Ellings may have aft deck biminis to provide a degree of protection.
Click to expand...

In addition to that, the Trader 50 is a bigger boat anyway, especially compared to the E3.
Basic stats are;
E3 length 45ft x 14ft beam
E4 length 49ft x 14ft beam
T50 length 54ft 8in x 15ft beam

And, as IDAMAY says, the proportions are totally different, with the Ellings having a far more streamlined shape and large swim platforms eating into their length. It will be mainly this, coupled with their lighter displacements, less than 12,000 and approx. 14,000 kg, against over 18,000 that will induce a greater level of roll as well as reduce their internal volume. Although not to scale, maybe these will help to show this.
e3-yacht-deck-plan.jpg
e4-yacht-deck-plan.jpg
5764049_20160404031725845_1_XLARGE.jpg

Similarly, the Trader 42, which measures over 43ft with the short platform or over 45ft with the extended one, probably has a greater internal volume than the E3 an maybe even the E4. At a true displacement of over 17,000kg, despite Trader quoting it as 14,000, it also has more hull in the water.
 
MapisM said:
Darn, I should have thought that eventually someone could remember when I began thinking about that in this thread, already one year ago... :D :D :D
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Isn't that caravan in your video what I saw at Dusseldorf in January?
My other half even threatened me that if I ever bought anything that frugly, she'd leave me - I haven't told her yet, but I can't wait for it to arrive.:cool:

And incidentally, that vid is about on par with the Sirena one everyone's whinging about ..................... bl***y Philistines, absolutely no taste! :D:D:D
 
stillwaters said:
And incidentally, that vid is about on par with the Sirena one everyone's whinging about
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it stands to reason that henryf (or anyone else, for that matter) did not raise any objection about the "lifestyle-based" video, in that thread.
That was their only chance to attract some attention, considering the boat elegance...! :rolleyes: :D
 
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