Toughened glass windows

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dftn

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I want to change the windows (approx 450 by 115 with rounded ends) back to glass. Toughened glass seems very expensive (£40+ per pane). Can anyone suggest a source at a sensible price? Is laminated glass a suitable alternative?

Thanks
 
I changed from perspex to laminated galss this season. Only advisable if the glass fits into a frame and is held with sealant. Laminated glass is very susceptible to cracking if bent or twisted. Any flexing will need to occur in the joint around the pane.

Made a huge difference in terms of clarity and light transmission.

Worst that can happen in my book is a few cracks and then I can revert to perspex but I do not see this as likely.

Tony.
 
just replaced mine with toughened sealed units...

same applies, nice flexible sealant.

40 quid a sheet sounds dear for single piece of glass... you'll pay a bit more for the ground edges, but mine were about that for double glazed.
 
Sounds a bit expensive. I had some glass doors made a couple of years back, bevelled glass, 6mm thick, rounded corners, ground edges, holes bored for handles etc and toughened - 4 pieces about twice the size you are talking about came to around £80. Shop around your local glaziers. The actual toughening does not cost much although I had 6 pieces made as sometimes the glass breaks during toughening or so I was told. I actually wound up with 6 pieces (none broke) although quoted for 4.
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Laminated glass should NEVER be used for windows on boats and is also not accepted in any codes or rules - it is prohibited on commercial vessels in all parts of the world I am familiar with.

Contrary to popular myth laminated glass is no stronger than plain single layer (monolithic) glass of the same thickness and, in fact, may be as little as half of the strength of the same thickness of monolithic.

Glass in boat windows should be toughened and will be twice the same strength as plain glass if just heat strengthened and up to 4x the strength if it is fully tempered.

John
 
I have read about the 'glass' in dodgers being rfeplaced with hurricane zone 4 type laminated glass. These laminations resist projectile damage in up to 200 kph winds.

They use similar technology to so called bullet proof glass, in that layers of acyclic and glue, are laminated to treated glass in a sandwich that resists breakage and dissapates a projectiles enegy.

Haven't built the aluminium dodger yet but am leaning towardsa first a model in plywood, then the aluminium dodger with window cut outs and later the special hurricane zone glass that reaches the most recent building code in Florida that requires impact resistant glass to withstand a 2 X 4 inch wooden stud being fired at the sample.
 
Yes, but you will find that most (all?) hurricane resistant glass is made with toughened glass laminations.

John
 
I used internal office laminated glass that was surplus when we had some new partitions done....very tough indeed...on my last trip from France to blighty it was a f6 all the way and some terrific waves smashed into the wheel house windows with no problem...

The local glazier cut them up to fit patterns
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

I used laminated a few years ago in a frame. The movement started to seperate the glass from plastic. Changed back to toughened glass. went to the local glass dealer who sent it off to a company for toughening. came to around £15 for 2 bits 300 by 300mm.
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

Thanks for all the advice. On distilling it, it seems that laminated glass is not advisable as it is weaker than plain glass and much weaker than toughened glass. It may delaminate around the edges as well and insurers may not approve it. I guess that the surface of toughened glass is more scratch resistant too.

So I am left with trying to find a supplier of toughened glass at a sensible price. The minimum seems to be £25 per pane around here (Bristol). Any suggestions?

Thanks
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

While I cannot comment on the codes and what is not acceptable in commercial vessels I would like to clarify a few points.

laminated glass can be made from ordinary annealed glass or from toughned glass or a combination of both, with a layer of plastic/glue between the panes.

Its big weakness comes in terms resistence to twist. or thermal difference between the inside layers and the outer layers when it is laminated many times over.

in general laminate glass 6.4mm or the like is much stronger in real terms when fitted in a frame than a pane of 6mm annealed glass. A piece of 6mm toughened will have greater resistance to a hammer blow than a pane of annealed or laminated but will shatter and vanish into a million pieces if punctured by a sharp object or if twisted too much, it will be particularly susceptable to damage in the zone near the edges.

the advantage of laminate is that while it may suffer damage it will maintain much of its structure and thus may keep the water out.

I have used laminated glass in security screens and in general glazing for over 20 years and have never come accross delamination.

The windscreens of cars were traditionally toughened, they are not any more, they are now laminated while the side windows( the ones that the thieves break with a steel nail are still toughened.)

I hope this helps.

Tony.
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

Regarding your point on scratch resistance, toughened glass generally is LESS scratch resistant than untoughened but is not an important issue in selection.

Regarding the other poster's comments on car windscreens, they are made of laminated for reasons OTHER than the strength of the glass. Also his comment that one can get laminated glass using toughened sheets (in fact can also get laminated glass with composite of toughened and untoughened) is correct, but one assumes that if one is already looking at a solution cheaper than toughened glass then a laminate of toughened is a definite no goer.

As CcScott rightly said, if open the whole field up can use armoured also (which may be a laminate of toughened, untoughened and plastics).

In the end, marine use is normally toughened and should never be plain whether laminated or not - each sheet should come back from processing with a fused ink identification on it that it has been so treated.

John
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

Just to tack a question on to this thread;-

Don't suppose anyone knows where I might get a piece of Curved Toughened Glass, my windscreen was originally made of 'Triplex' but at some point one half has been broken and replaced with plastic/perspex/lexan I'd like to match the original but am having no luck finding a supplier who can help.

Paul.
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

I don't know your boat, but is there any chance it is a car window / windscreen ?

I may know someone who can help with toughened glass - need to make a phone call tomorrow.

(Toughened, not laminated is the way to go).

Andy
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

Thanks I'd really appreciate that, I have been told it may be based on a cut down windscreen from from a 1960’s BMC FG truck but have not been able to locate one of those to compare.

Paul.
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

Sorry, drew a blank on toughened glass /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

If I understand you correctly, the window has cracked in half - this means it definitely isn't toughened, as it would have shattered into tiny pieces. If it is laminated (a plastic film sandwiched between 2 sheets of glass) then it's probably fairly recent.

I suggest asking around glaziers / glass merchants, as there are routes to getting this sort of thing made (thought I knew one, but didn't). Probably won't be cheap to get it bent though.

Triplex is a Pilkington trademark, BTW. Windscreen / car window bit is now known as Pilkington Automotive (factory in King's Norton, Birmingham). Plane / train windscreen / bullet-proof glass / odds & sods is Pilkington Aerospace (next door to Automotive).

Sorry.

Andy
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

I am not in UK but I believe that Pilkington do curved specials toughened here (and laminated also) but quite expensive I would imagine - they certainly also do marine glass to required standard.

Maybe they are worth a try in the UK.

John
 
Re: Toughened glass windows re dftn

I have to say that on the issue of car windscreens being laminated for reasons other than strength, I beg to differ! In the "old days", as has been said, they all used to be toughened. They are now pretty much universally laminated because it is so much stronger and in the event of an impact, you can still see through them as well. I agree, the glass itsel may not be as strong (indeed, it isn't) but the window as a whole is much stronger. The reasons the side windows are not made from laminated glass as well (although a few are) are firstly because the edges of laminated glass need to be very well sealed from the elements (otherwise water gets between the laminations and the interlayer and they go milky round the edges) so that's difficult on windows that need to open. Secondly, it is sometimes advantageous for the emergency services to be able to break a side window - which is nigh impossible to do if they are laminated!

I'm amazed that they are not encouraged on boats (if strength is the reason). When Tony Bullimore lost his keel, he was sitting upside down in his boat and heard the end of the boom tapping against one of the cabin windows. Before he could get to it, to cut it free, the window went the way of all toughened glass in such conditions and he was left with very little space in which to breathe! I'm pretty certain that a laminated item would have lasted longer in the same circumstances.


With regard to sourcing Scarron's bit of curved toughened glass, try the following. They do kit car windscreens and are therefore used to small order, they MIGHT be able to help...

Automotive & Architectural, 34 Rose Hill, Rednal, Birmingham, B45 8RR, Tel: 0121 453 7167.

Charles Pugh Glass (Ed Pugh), 54-74 Holme Road, Kentish Town, London, NW5 3AN,
Tel: 0171 267 9601

Uroglas, 17 Silver Birches Business Park, Aston Road, Aston Fields Industrial Est, Bromsgrove, Worcs, B60 3EX, Tel: 01527 577477

Dormstone Safety Glass, Dormstone Trading Estate, Burton Road, Dudley, DY1 2UF, Tel: 01902 672252


Master Autoglass Ltd, Unit 3, Ferry Lane Industrial Est, Forest Rd, London, E17 6HG,
Tel: 0181 531 9219


Tyneside Safety Glass Company Ltd, Kingsway North, Team Valley Trading Est, Gateshead, Tyne & Wear, NE11 0JX,
Tel: 0191 491 5064


Classic & Vintage Glass, Thorngrove Lodge, Hallow, Worcester, WR2 6NP,
Tel: 01905 641700
 
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