Totally Gone off Diesel

Bigplumbs

Bigplumbs

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I am a boater with modest funds so for our next big (to us boat) 25 footer I was going to go with a Diesel engine so that we can actually afford to run it. Probably a KAD32 or KAMD43P. My view is that with the much cheaper (at the moment) price of red diesel I could run this boat for similar cost to my 3.0 ltr 135 hp mercruiser. However

1) After reading various threads on here with what I consider horror stories about the cost of repairing a diesel (20K on one thread) and

2) All this hype in the media at the moment about Diesel fumes killing all of us and what this will mean for the good old diesel engine and fuel prices and tax

I simply don't know what to do.

Anyone else thinking the same

Regards

Dennis
 
Not sure about boats as I don't see a real alternative to diesel for anything biggish ,
Cars thou, hum.
Wouldn't be buying a diesel car now, especially if I lived in a city.
I suspect there going to be the next big TAX grab all in the name of pollution (which may be true but easy money for the government )
 
New petrol outboards are very efficient. And for a 25 footer they are a realistic alternative.

Look closely at the consumption figures and purchase prices of brand new outboards and look at all the costs together carefully because they really come close to the cost of running an older diesel, and hugely better it if your diesel goes wrong.

Only question is the availability of petrol in your cruising grounds.

On boats bigger than 30 foot I think that the balance shifts back in favour of diesel.

Garold
 
Garold said:
New petrol outboards are very efficient. And for a 25 footer they are a realistic alternative.

Look closely at the consumption figures and purchase prices of brand new outboards and look at all the costs together carefully because they really come close to the cost of running an older diesel, and hugely better it if your diesel goes wrong.

Only question is the availability of petrol in your cruising grounds.

On boats bigger than 30 foot I think that the balance shifts back in favour of diesel.

Garold
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I take your point but I am afraid a new large petrol outboard is totally outside my price bracket and a new boat to fit one on also way beyond.

My Budget is max £30,000 so with the current nonsense around diesel and how our so called government will likely milk this to raise tax income I fear my future boating plans are on hold or even scrapped. So that is one small person out of the second hand market and if more follow that's the new market supressed. Imagine if this happens in the car market

Dennis
 
And once we have all switched to petrol then that will be the next thing to be hit by a pollution tax, just face up to it that what ever we do the government will want their big chunk so nothing will be safe from big taxes, is pollution really as bigger problem as they try and make us believe ? If it was so bad why can you still pollute if you are prepared to pay ? Surely if it's wrong it's wrong ?
 
I dont think the govt will change the tax on or massively tax diesel fuel (any more than they are now), what is likely is a change in the vehicle excise duty (ie your yearly road tax), and lots of cities banning diesel cars.

None of this will affect boats.

Your first point is valid though I think, I have a 25 foot diesel powered boat, and while the fuel costs are substantially lower than my old petrol boat, the maintenance costs are substantially higher. The diesel boat is overall the more expensive to run.
 
julians said:
I dont think the govt will change the tax on or massively tax diesel fuel (any more than they are now), what is likely is a change in the vehicle excise duty (ie your yearly road tax), and lots of cities banning diesel cars.

None of this will affect boats.



Your first point is valid though I think, I have a 25 foot diesel powered boat, and while the fuel costs are substantially lower than my old petrol boat, the maintenance costs are substantially higher. The diesel boat is overall the more expensive to run.
Click to expand...

Interesting your point about which is cheaper to run. The thing that always amazes me is that with Petrol if you look on the repower marine site you will see that you can buy new engines (I know they are short of some bits that will probably be ok from your old engine) in the 3 - 5.7 ltr range for £3,000 - 4,000. This gives me comfort on a backstop price if all goes tits up.

Perhaps I need to change my search from Diesel to Petrol

Dennis
 
What about heating your house with oil? Surely this produces the same NOX emissions as cars and boats?
I do not know if this is so, pehaps the diesel engine type combustion is to blame for this.
You could convert a petrol engine to run on LPG but presume you would have to lug large gas bottles about.
 
My next boat also needs to be 25ft and towable. I have considered outboard powered boats, BUT none of the Marinas where I may base my boat sell petrol, (only diesel) and I am too old to be carrying cans of petrol to and from the Marina. (but strangely enough I may be prepared to carry cans of red diesel at half the price of what marinas may charge)
Yes I am aware that if I had a boat on a trailer I can fill up at a petrol station on my way to a pontoon/mooring but that means taking it out of the water after every use.
And regarding horror stories about diesels being repaired, if looked after properly they are excellent. But beware when sellers say "I have serviced it myself"
 
Garold said:
It's possible on a your budget.

I should have said 'newer' outboards.

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/...es-6-8-motor-boat-honda-bf115-outboard/170783

Garold
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Very nice boat and a good price. I have looked at that sort but would need a little bigger (Current boat is Fletcher 19 GTS 19 footer with 3 ltr mercruiser) and I also like to helm out in the open air hence looking more at Sealine S23's and the like. Not sure if many of these types come in outboard variants

Thanks for the response however it has got me thinking and cheered me up a little as I was getting rather down about the whole thing

Dennis
 
Perhaps I need to change my search from Diesel to Petrol
Click to expand...


I think it will depend on how many running hours you will do per year. I do between 50 and 100 hours per year, and diesel is overall more expensive, but I think if I were doing more than this, the balance would tip more in diesels favour.
 
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Jim@sea said:
My next boat also needs to be 25ft and towable. I have considered outboard powered boats, BUT none of the Marinas where I may base my boat sell petrol, (only diesel) and I am too old to be carrying cans of petrol to and from the Marina. (but strangely enough I may be prepared to carry cans of red diesel at half the price of what marinas may charge)
Yes I am aware that if I had a boat on a trailer I can fill up at a petrol station on my way to a pontoon/mooring but that means taking it out of the water after every use.
And regarding horror stories about diesels being repaired, if looked after properly they are excellent. But beware when sellers say "I have serviced it myself"
Click to expand...

Having bought a boat that had been serviced by the so called professionals I don't think you can trust sellers that say it was serviced by others either.
 
Bigplumbs said:
Did you botch up the link it goes to this very thread :)
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No, it's YBW's stupid thing. When you copy any text from a forum page, it adds "Read more at <place you copied it from>" to your clipboard, so it comes out as well as the original text. Most of us remember to delete it.

The OP obviously copied and pasted something while writing his post. He didn't mean to post a link, YBW put the words in his mouth without asking.

Pete
 
Bigplumbs said:
Interesting your point about which is cheaper to run. The thing that always amazes me is that with Petrol if you look on the repower marine site you will see that you can buy new engines (I know they are short of some bits that will probably be ok from your old engine) in the 3 - 5.7 ltr range for £3,000 - 4,000. This gives me comfort on a backstop price if all goes tits up.

Perhaps I need to change my search from Diesel to Petrol

Dennis
Click to expand...

An engine the size of a D3 or KAD32 can be had for £5K or thereabouts: http://coastalrides.co.uk/engines?product_id=18161
Bear in mind that you notice the horror stories more. I don't generally post up to say "oil changed yet again, both engines running smoothly".
The 20k bill was for a 7.3L monster weighing 900kg ... these engines were never cheap when new, and they aren't cheap to fix or rebuild now.

But yes, I wouldn't buy a diesel for "lower running costs".
I would buy a diesel because fuel is easier to obtain, my boat would have better range, and they are more reliable (although this last point is debatable).
 
Jim@sea said:
But beware when sellers say "I have serviced it myself"
Click to expand...

Why?

If a seller has stacks of receipts for genuine VP parts, all applied following the correct schedule, and they have called in the pros where the manual says "dealer should do this"...
 
FlowerPower said:
An engine the size of a D3 or KAD32 can be had for £5K or thereabouts: http://coastalrides.co.uk/engines?product_id=18161
Bear in mind that you notice the horror stories more. I don't generally post up to say "oil changed yet again, both engines running smoothly".
The 20k bill was for a 7.3L monster weighing 900kg ... these engines were never cheap when new, and they aren't cheap to fix or rebuild now.

But yes, I wouldn't buy a diesel for "lower running costs".
I would buy a diesel because fuel is easier to obtain, my boat would have better range, and they are more reliable (although this last point is debatable).
Click to expand...
There are other reasons. For me it was having a full length swim platform and being able to Med park. I love outboards but would not consider an inboard petrol, and apart from ski boats an inboard petrol on shafts is a rare beast. As for reliability, I think the pendulum has swung the other way and it would be hard to say a diesel is as reliable as a Honda on the stern. We are not talking crossing oceans or running 24/7 commercial boat stuff (but I think a Honda could do it). It comes down to the fuel issue, which is important, is it available and what's your biggest fear, the diesel bug or the petrol going stale.
Oh yeah, of course cost is a huge factor for most of us.
 
The other point to consider is resale. Boats over 20 ish feet are much easier to sell if diesels. The pollution etc thing is a red herring. Coastal emissions are different to inland. The Government is not likely to hike red diesel as the fishing and commercial implications would hit them hard. VED is a different story, but of course not applicable to boats. Petrol engines are going to become more polluting in the future as manufacturers seek efficiency improvements with higher compression ratios. This is what creates NOx and pm. I will not be rushing out to swap my diesel car for a Sinclair C5 for many years.
 
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