Topsides respray advice on final sanding

[auditdata]

Hi Guy and Gals,
Just finished the final spray coat and I am wondering when and how to complete it.
So far 3 Undercoat, 1 3/4 coat and 2 full coats of Hempel/Blakes Polygloss two pack polyurethane topcoat. The final coat was done this morning and there is a very, very slight orange peel effect. The sprayer suggests that by Monday it will be ready to polish with 1000grit and then what?
My questions are. 1 Is this the right time to do it. The spec says it will not be completely dry for 5 days. 2. After the 1000 grit do I apply polish or wait until completely hard?
Advice please
Clive

 

[VicS]

Advice please

See the coating manufacturers instruction/product data sheet. Follow their advice to the letter!

Get a sprayer who can do it without leaving an orange peel effect!

 

[auditdata]

The data sheet says Dry to sand "24 (app) hours at 20°C/68°F, 54 (app) hours at 10°C/50°F" but I not sure if this is for between coats or final coat hence I was hoping for some practical advice which I have had here before rather than Smart Alex comments.
Clive

 

[exfinnsailor]

With the cost of the job why not just consult the manufacturers. They all have a team of technical people who can help . Its always worth a phone call

 

[VicS]

The data sheet says Dry to sand "24 (app) hours at 20°C/68°F, 54 (app) hours at 10°C/50°F" but I not sure if this is for between coats or final coat hence I was hoping for some practical advice which I have had here before rather than Smart Alex comments.
Clive

It was not intended to be a smart Alec rermark

THE ONLY SOUND ADVICE ANYONE CAN GIVE YOU IS TO FoLLOW THE MANUFACTURERS ADVICE

IF YOU WANT CALRITY CONTACT THEIR TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT


Theydont expect the final coat to require rubbing down

They expect it to be done by a competant operator who can proudce a perfect finish with no orange peel

They will proabbly suggest rubbing back to a sound blemish free surface and another spray caot applied Properly.

But at the end of the day its only a boat. It wont sink due to abit of orange peel effect in the paint.

 

[xtiffer]

Walk away from it and have another look tomorrow.
All paint needs to flow out (even sprayed) you may find
that the " very,very slight orange peel" has miraculously gone tomorrow.
If not then P320 sand and recoat.
Hassle I know but you seem to want it done right; polish it after a couple of weeks if required.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[auditdata]

Thanks exfinnsailor, I will give them a ring on Monday. The reason for the post was it was Saturday and the boys were on it Monday morning so wanted to see if it was OK before they started.
Thanks xtiffer, to be fair that's what the sprayer said. I think he used the words "Tighten up"
Sorry if I was a bit short VicS but telling me to use a different sprayer after the event is like using a retroscope or predicting the lottery numbers on Sunday for the previous Saturday!!! I was a bit anxious after thinking I had covered all the bases.
Just needed a little advice to get my baby perfect!
Will go up there tomorrow to see if it has improved.
Maybe I am being a bit too fussy.
Any advise on "Polish". To show my ignorance all I know is car wax and advocates of teflon. What might be the marine equivalent?
Clive

 

[philiphurst]

Firstly: I'm no expert!

I re-paint my classic every year usung Toplac. Last year, the chaps at International recommended their Polwax product. (Yep, they would!) I've found it to be excellent and it makes it very easy to remove the evil black streaks after rainfall. Easy to apply and buffs up a treat

If you are likely to re-paint in the future, it's best to avoid polishes containing silicon.

 

[auditdata]

Just been to the boat and will add a photo soon. The orange peel is definitely less. I think it's the sodium lights that make it look worse as today with natural light it was harder to spot. Or maybe the sprayer was correct and it has tightened up. Still some info on polishing finishing please. Will look at the international suggestion and interesting comment on silicone.
Thanks
Clive

 

[lustyd]

I'd let the sprayer do what he suggests - it's pretty much what my brother said (he's also a sprayer although on cars). From what he said, on cars they will always polish either way (not for production line obviously) because it's not possible to get a consistent enough finish over the whole vehicle so a better finish can be achieved and faster by spraying a few coats on then flattening and polishing which will give the mirror finish you desire.

Or you could do what I did - let the paintwork remain dull and put it in the water to sail anyway

 

[Heckler]

The data sheet says Dry to sand "24 (app) hours at 20°C/68°F, 54 (app) hours at 10°C/50°F" but I not sure if this is for between coats or final coat hence I was hoping for some practical advice which I have had here before rather than Smart Alex comments.
Clive

I agree with Vic, its not a smart alec comment. Orange peel effect is the mark of an amateur sprayer. It shouldnt need rubbing down. (On the final coat) Not being nasty, just stating a fact.
Stu

 

[PCUK]

On my brush painted boat I flatted off with 320, then 800 then 1500 then Farecla g3. A fair bit of work but then I don't have spray facilities but do still have the mirror finish - eventually!!!
I'd guess 1500 then compound but that is an amateur opinion.

 

[auditdata]

Sorry Stu the Smart Alex comment was "get another sprayer". A bit after the event!
Anyway I had the manufactures data and I gave it to the sprayer and he followed it. I was seeking collective experience which is always as good as formal information.
Things look a lot better this morning and I think it now only needs a light finish.
Lustyd's advice seems sound and a light flattening will do the trick I think.
Another picture here.

Hard to get a close up but will attempt on Monday.

 

[pappaecho]

I am bit confused by the use pf 100 grit to key the surface. Having done my boat several months ago, the advice was 240 grit which is much finer. the object is to key the surface so that the last gloss coat sticks perfectly. Does the instructions say by hand or with an orbital sander?
Usually the last coat is thinned a bit to give "extra gloss"
I agree with VicS, speak to the technical service department. By the way the temperatures in the last two days have been ideal 22 degree daytime, falling to 16 at night so no worries with curing of the undercoats

 

[auditdata]

Hi pappaecho,
The tech data says re-coat interval without keying 16 hours to 5 days (20C). All the coats were done within this timescale so not worried about keying.

 

[VicS]

I am bit confused by the use pf 100 grit to key the surface. Having done my boat several months ago, the advice was 240 grit which is much finer. the object is to key the surface so that the last gloss coat sticks perfectly. Does the instructions say by hand or with an orbital sander?
Usually the last coat is thinned a bit to give "extra gloss"
I agree with VicS, speak to the technical service department. By the way the temperatures in the last two days have been ideal 22 degree daytime, falling to 16 at night so no worries with curing of the undercoats

He said 1000 grit not 100.

I think it will need progressing to P1500 before using a compounding paste such as Farecla G3.

Even so my understanding is that the result will be a surface covered in microscopic scratches which although invisible to the naked may attract and hold dirt unless sealed with a wax polish. This would not be so if the final paint finish was of the standard it should have been.

IMHO the correct way forward is to rub down, just as may have been done between previous coats, and spray the final coat again without the orange peel.
That may involve insisting on a more competent operator!

The job must have cost a ridiculous sum of money and for that you should have a job which is 100%.


BUt BUT BUT Is it really worth all the agro.
Its a boat.
Once its out of that shed its going to be at the mercy of every idiot who sails past. It's going to get bashed and scraped sooner or later.
It's fenders will mark the topsides if moored in a marina in a bit of a blow. Someone else's barnacle encrusted fenders will do their worst when they moor alongside.


If the finish as it is is reasonable negotiate a reduction in the price for the job and call it a day.

Go sailing .... that is if you dare take it out of the shed!

 

[Jim@sea]

Hi Guy and Gals,
very, very slight orange peel effect. The sprayer suggests that by Monday it will be ready to polish with 1000grit and then what?
My questions are. 1 Is this the right time to do it. The spec says it will not be completely dry for 5 days. 2. After the 1000 grit do I apply polish or wait until completely hard?
Advice please
Clive

We were spraying cars with 2 pack in the late 70's and I cannot believe the produce is any different now. Wait for at least 2 days for the paint to "cure" and then flat it with 1200's wet and dry. Sometimes you have to rub 2 sheets of 1200's together to reduce the grit. Dont forget to hose off the area you have rubbed down as tiny unseen bits of grit will be in the microscopic scratches. Then leave it for another day OR 2 for the "exposed" paint which you have rubbed down to go hard. During this period it is still "curing" I always thought that 2 pack was a bit like concrete where it sets over a period of time.
Then get your pain sprayer back, mix some more 2 pack but with a greater quantity of thinners (perferably "accelerator thinners") and get a "mist coat" sprayed on, which will not leave an "orange peel" finish. Then leave for 2 days. Done properly you should have a finish which does not need "Farecla" or anything else. The final finish should be out of a spraygun not messing around with Farecla and polishing with a machine.

 

[Lakesailor]

I have to agree. I used to spray cars I was looking after and usually needed to compound them but a lad who worked for me could spray a fantastic finish straight from the gun.

One trick he used to use when blending in was to use 1200 wet n dry and rub soap onto the paper. It left the smoothest finish imaginable.
Not sure it would work on modern paints. [/livinginthepastmode]

 

[Boo2]

Watching "American Hotrod" on Quest, when they want a show class finish they always rub down with wet and dry (used wet) after the last coat. Given reason is to "get rid of the slight orange peel that's always left", so is their sprayer just nfg, or is this very common ?

Boo2

 

[Heckler]

Watching "American Hotrod" on Quest, when they want a show class finish they always rub down with wet and dry (used wet) after the last coat. Given reason is to "get rid of the slight orange peel that's always left", so is their sprayer just nfg, or is this very common ?

Boo2

NFG, nail on head!
Seriously, you shoudnt need to flat the final coat. Flatting will get rid of less than perfect finish BUT as Vic says, must have cost an arm and a leg, if it needs flatting, whos paying? Also the point about microscopic scratches to collect dirt is relevant.
Stu