Topsail Renewal

jrudge

jrudge

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Topsail renewal - up from£ 2126 to £ 2393 - so 12.5%

This of course is on top of some serious increases over there past few years.

Last year they started at some daft figure and came down.

What are other experiences at present ?

Mine is a S58 in Mallorca insured for £350k.

I can shop around but not sure what the current forum "list" is. Pants is one.
 
mine went from £600 to £800 for a £100K boat with Navigators and General. I questioned them about it, loads and loads of serious claims caused by bad weather.
 
I don't agee with insurance (or, indeed, most other things) being decided solely on price, but there comes a point . . .

My Topsail (having taken over Y Yacht's business) insurance (raggie here) has gone up in leaps and bounds in the last few years. When the latest renewal quote arrived, I checked around and got several quotes elsewhere, all substantially lower than Topsail, so they've lost my business.
 
lots, as they were formerly Y insurance who were a forum favourite. Y built a business based on quality at a low price. He sold out when he realised that the rates we're going up. Topsail bought the book. I doubt it was a great move as the last owner promised no more price increases - and of course the premiums just keep going up and up.

Topsail seem to have a send out a high premium and haggle model which I suspect most of us can do without. It gets tiresome.
 
@Piers and I commented on this subject at some length around May/June time last year. I was also with Y and got fed up with the constant price hikes, not to mention the way in which they treated people that I knew for claims - in particular, one total loss - they made their lives unnecessarily difficult at an extremely upsetting time.

I moved to Pantaenius. Their first offer was for around £6.80 per thousand insured. When I'd shopped around a bit and made them work a bit harder on sharpening their pencils, it came down to £4.29/1000. It was, on balance, a better policy than many others and I did have quotes as low as £3.80/1000 but wasn't happy with some of the terms.

I'm quite looking forward to this year's negotiation, in a sadistic sort of way.
 
I was with Coleman’s where I understand there’s a link with the late Mr Braithwaite of Sunseeker fame .Some siblings wedding or other years ago ?
Just when I bought my Sunseeker from the factory I was weighting the turn key element .Boat , training ,transport to SoF + insurance all in house .
As the yrs rolled by I was time poor and couldn’t be arsed shopping around .The Itama appeared 2014 and I basically retired .
So now time rich .I did shop around but found hardly any difference .Coleman’s switched me from Sunseeker shield to a Amlin based one .The outdrive SS was around £1400 in 2013 and the shafty Itama dropped to under £800 with same basically Amlin policy initially .
As we all know insurance threads pop up on here from time to time .
The Y story and bubble but the same Amlin .They quoted £1400 from Coleman’s £800 .I did not go back / haggle .
My be I should have ?
Meanwhile Y became the forum favourite .As most of you know I asked a pointy question to Coleman’s ( same Amlin as Y ) .
This caused a row on here , but you know me .It was focused on “ leaving the boat unattended at anchor “
The Amlin underwriters left me thinking there was a cop out re there “ normal seamanship and responsibility “ They put in writing they would refute a claim if you the vessels was left out of sight or not within 30 mins of me reaching it .
A lot of you inc JFM hid behind the “ all risks “ is all risks and if it’s not in exclusions it’s kinda “ in “ .
But Amlins told me the exclusions list is not exhaustive, they can’t write in every scenario and would look at basic seamanship.
Or lack of it for leaving it unattended. I have no stomach to place my house deeds in hoc to fund a judicial review should Amlins refute .
Some forum members granted would fight .But the ave bod ?

So it wasn’t price now it was policy that became my driver circa 2015/16 iirc .
Med boaters do ashore , leave it unattended often .
So I asked Coleman’s to twitch a muscle and find or write a policy whereby the Unattended at anchor was actually written in , written up in the wording .They did !

Initially it was a Martello policy , lately a N+G from craft insure which states fully covered unattended at in a recognised anchorage on a chart be it paper or plotter .
Thinking of the usual lunch or foraging for supplies I went further and asked how long ?
Expecting like 1/2 day or something to come back which I think we can live with .Nope .
What came back was this seamanship / common sense thingy they said the boat could be left for a few days / nights as long as the met forecast was sensible and the bay a safe one .They wouldn’t place a deadline on the time .Great !

Last quote from Coleman’s was £1100 but the identical N+G ( with the all important unattended @ anchor ) is £800 from the on line craft unsure .
Also I have added €40 K to the value to reflect the price increases recently .

Pants once came back @£2600 as an example fwiw .

A lot of the S S shield and Martello( Zurich ) was stuff N/A to me like fine art , guns , crew sickness , cancelled charter fees , freezer contents etc .

I just want 3 P , total loss and unattended @ anchor .
Interestingly our current policy has €1000 worth of vet fees .Something I never considered but you never know .
You see when we take the dog ashore …….it’s unattended at anchor …….got it folks why I drilled down squeezed the blood out of the Amlin et al stones .

DB10F5E9-5B93-4F4D-851E-48D62056C2CC.jpeg
Typical anchorage .
 
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In a nut shell for Marc C I,am still on £800 in 2022 the same as 2014 but with the extra €40 K value .The unattended @ anchor written in and some vet cover tossed in .

:)

But I had the retirement time to keyboard the shakers and movers .
 
All good points, @Portofino, but the lawyer in me (current, practising) has to query something you've said:

Portofino said:
“ leaving the boat unattended at anchor “
The Amlin underwriters left me thinking there was a cop out re there “ normal seamanship and responsibility “ They put in writing they would refute a claim if you the vessels was left out of sight or not within 30 mins of me reaching it .
.....
But Amlins told me the exclusions list is not exhaustive, they can’t write in every scenario and would look at basic seamanship
.....
So I asked Coleman’s to twitch a muscle and find or write a policy whereby the Unattended at anchor was actually written in , written up in the wording .They did !
......
What came back was this seamanship / common sense thingy they said the boat could be left for a few days / nights as long as the met forecast was sensible and the bay a safe one .They wouldn’t place a deadline on the time .Great !
......
Click to expand...
You went from a policy where it was not stated that unattended at anchor was permitted. Amlin stated that they would rely on you acting in a seamanlike manner.

You went to a policy where Colemans did say unattended at anchor was fine, provided you acted in a seamanlike manner.

I'm struggling to really see a difference from a legal perspective. I think its just down to presentation. Of course, you may have more faith in Colemans for whatever reason, but I am only thinking of the position at law - and of course, I don't have the benefit of both policies in front of me, just a precis of your understanding.

benjenbav said:
Love the optimism that you’re going to be making them hurt.
Best I ever hope for is that the premium doesn’t hurt me too much.
Click to expand...
Don't you think its fun trying to pay as little as possible for as much as possible? Providing, of course, one is not spending undue amounts of time on it when one could be making more money (or spending it!) in a more satisfactory way.
 
Solent Sailor said:
All good points, @Portofino, but the lawyer in me (current, practising) has to query something you've said:


You went from a policy where it was not stated that unattended at anchor was permitted. Amlin stated that they would rely on you acting in a seamanlike manner.

You went to a policy where Colemans did say unattended at anchor was fine, provided you acted in a seamanlike manner.

I'm struggling to really see a difference from a legal perspective. I think its just down to presentation. Of course, you may have more faith in Colemans for whatever reason, but I am only thinking of the position at law - and of course, I don't have the benefit of both policies in front of me, just a precis of your understanding.


Don't you think its fun trying to pay as little as possible for as much as possible? Providing, of course, one is not spending undue amounts of time on it when one could be making more money (or spending it!) in a more satisfactory way.
Click to expand...
The N+G unattended bit is written in on the policy wording ……on marked anchorages charts + buoys etc .
Our usage is just restaurants , dog duties , bunkering food .Day time . In marked bays etc .

So we are covered .

There seems from further digging I carried out no time limit .I was looking through holiday boating specs .
Yes I wanted to know a time limit sos not to accidentally exceed .

Obviously on a marked anchorage with a mistral blowing in and you buggered off ( in a un seamanship manor ) to the airport to fly home leaving he boat for a week and it sank they would play the un seamanship card and refute .More so I’d say typically in a med island and known met , with 50 boats one day and 49 moved round to the lee bay leavening yours on its own to be wrecked while you buggered off .= un seamanship stuff ?
So whilst they N+G write it in the policy and leave out a time limit they do say they will exercise the un seamanship card refute card.Otherwise it opens up just anchoring of the Needles ( assuming it marked on a chart? ) all winter unattended.Expecting a full pay out after the next gale sinks it .

How ever if it was marked on a chart safe good met perfectly calm for a the time period not specified , with ave of 50 boats in the bay each night then I expect the” unattended @ anchor cover in a marked chart would apply .All hypothetical for me as I would not risk it anyhow .
 
Last years premium from Topsail was exceptionally good for acceptable cover with Haven KJ.
I have renewed via Topsail but only after haggling. The initial offer would have been cheaper if I had gone direct to the insurer .

One other enquiry resulted in no offer and another was a higher price.
 
jrudge said:
Topsail renewal - up from£ 2126 to £ 2393 - so 12.5%

This of course is on top of some serious increases over there past few years.

Last year they started at some daft figure and came down.

What are other experiences at present ?

Mine is a S58 in Mallorca insured for £350k.

I can shop around but not sure what the current forum "list" is. Pants is one.
Click to expand...

We changed to Curtis marine insurance after Hurricane of this parish mentioned them, they were competertive,easy to deal with, the cover they offered was ok for our needs, had been with Y for Many years but there handling of a claim for damage caused by others was badly handled,eventually sorted direct by Amlin, plus the ever increasing premium ,
 
Solent Sailor said:
You went from a policy where it was not stated that unattended at anchor was permitted.

Amlin stated that they would rely on you acting in a seamanlike manner.

You went to a policy where Colemans did say unattended at anchor was fine, provided you acted in a seamanlike manner.

I'm struggling to really see a difference from a legal perspective. I think its just down to presentation. Of course, you may have more faith in Colemans for whatever reason, but I am only thinking of the position at law - and of course, I don't have the benefit of both policies in front of me, just a precis of your understanding.
Click to expand...
Legally, there is no difference. JFM posted many times explaining this and eventially gave up. For some reason, people here like to see some anchoring exclusions / restrictions as some kind of comfort blanket. They don't understand what an all risks accidental damage policy covers you for.

Quite bizarre but hey ho.
 
dj43 said:
We changed to Curtis marine insurance after Hurricane of this parish mentioned them, they were competertive,easy to deal with, the cover they offered was ok for our needs,
Click to expand...

+1
Following Hurricanes post we included Curtis in our search and they came out cheaper by a country mile with perfectly acceptable coverage. Having previously been with Y the renewal from Topsail immediately excluded them from any further consideration.
.
 
jrudge said:
Topsail renewal - up from£ 2126 to £ 2393 - so 12.5%

This of course is on top of some serious increases over there past few years.

Last year they started at some daft figure and came down.

What are other experiences at present ?

Mine is a S58 in Mallorca insured for £350k.

I can shop around but not sure what the current forum "list" is. Pants is one.
Click to expand...
you can get an instant online quote from craftinsure so you’ve nothing to lose by trying that.
I’ve used them for years. Variations to standard policy accommodated and 3 claims dealt with fairly and efficiently.

JFMs beef with it is they have a clause that says they can at their discretion provide a similar craft rather than cash in case of a total loss. i Can live with that but can see why he wouldn’t.
 
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