Tonnage Survey for Part 1

[Crisby]

Hi all, I’m seeking some advice from anybody who has been in a similar situation.

We are currently in the process of buying a Belgian flagged boat in Italy and once we have deregistered her in Belgium we will put her on Part 1 in the UK. Before the Belgian registry in 2007 she was on Part 1 and SSR will she still need a new tonnage survey? I have contacted the MCA but not received any reply yet, has anybody else had a similar situation?

The boats’ location means that a new tonnage survey will require a surveyor to be flown in and I know from the purchase survey how much that costs!

Chris

 

[Neil_Y]

I'd check with RYA or the ships registration office in Cardiff.
https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollecti...ion in the UK/BOAT REGISTRATION IN THE UK.pdf

 

[moomba]

It is possible to find a plague or a tonnage mark on the hull somewhere , if it was registered before , then there might be evidence of this , which can be used to fill out the forms , otherwise you will need to get a surveyor in if you want part 1 registration, you can also get part 3 registration which requires no tonnage and has no difference to flag registration or to other countries ports as both are recognised throughout the world
you will here the nay sayers saying you must have part 1 for overseas but this wrong

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/notes.asp

1) What is Part III of the Register?
Part III (commonly called the Small Ships Register - SSR) is for ships which want only simple registration; it does not register title and you cannot register mortgages on this part of the Register. It provides an inexpensive, simple registration which proves the ships nationality (a kind of passport).

 

[Kukri]

She should have her Register Number and Registered Tonnage marked, if not indeed on the main beam, at least somewhere obvious.

Armed with these, or with a copy of Lloyd’s Register of Yachts if she was built before 1977, or just with the name under which she was laste registered in the UK, apply to Cardiff for a Transcript of the Register from the last year that she was on it.

Submit this with your application. If in doubt phone +44292044 8800. The Register people are very helpful.

If Cardiff insist on a new survey, which I do not expect, there are qualified British surveyors who visit Italy regularly and you just need to arrange a survey with one at a mutually convenient time. PM me for the name and contacts of one such.

 

[Crisby]

Thanks all, had a reply from the MCA and as she has been off the registry for more than 12 months then I do need a tonnage survey. There is the option of a temporary 3 month part 1 but that won’t cover me until I can get her to a UK surveyor next spring so it looks like we’ll go down the SSR route which we can change in the future to part 1 if we need to.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

[TQA]

Register it on SSR. No survey required. Online form found here.

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/

Considerably cheaper than part 1.

Note if you are taking the Ulysses option and will be spending the majority of your time outside the UK you can do the SSR for 5 years then you have to go Part 1.

 

[macd]

Note if you are taking the Ulysses option and will be spending the majority of your time outside the UK you can do the SSR for 5 years then you have to go Part 1.

I seem to remember the "183 day rule" has been tested and found to be wanting. So the old, flimsily defined condition now applies: "normally resident", "established". Much easier to meet if you spend months outside the UK but retain property, family etc back home.

 

[Crisby]

Thanks macd, that was going to be my next question as the 183 days would be a bit marginal. But what we might be able to do is SSR to get us on our way and then change to part 1 once we’ve had a few months to take her somewhere (probably Kev Whittle in Lefkas) and have the tonnage survey then.

It’s exciting buying our next boat but we don’t seem to have picked the easiest path!

 

[Tranona]

Thanks macd, that was going to be my next question as the 183 days would be a bit marginal. But what we might be able to do is SSR to get us on our way and then change to part 1 once we’ve had a few months to take her somewhere (probably Kev Whittle in Lefkas) and have the tonnage survey then.

It’s exciting buying our next boat but we don’t seem to have picked the easiest path!

If you have a UK address and on the electoral roll for example, just apply on line. The issues seem to arise more on renewal or when there is anything on your application that suggests you are not resident. All anecdotal of course - but the same issue arises for Part 1 as you will need an agent if you are non resident.

 

[KellysEye]

The lift that puts you on the hard measures tonnage you could use one of those.

 

[NormanS]

The lift that puts you on the hard measures tonnage you could use one of those.

I think you will find that that is a different type of tonnage.

 

[vyv_cox]

I think you will find that that is a different type of tonnage.

Yes, when we had ours measured at the insistence of the finance company the job had nothing to do with weight, all done by tape measure. Our official figure is something like 1.5 times the actual weight of the boat.

 

[Kukri]

The register tonnage is a theoretical measure of the volume under the weather deck, calculated using formulae which have been developed over centuries to arrive at a rough measure of a ship’s earning power. In origin, a ton was a “tun” barrel of Bordeaux wine, and this became one hundred cubic feet, with allowances for crew accommodation, navigation spaces, and propelling machinery.

The register tonnage is used to calculate port and canal dues. It is not and has never been either a measure of displacement (the total weight of the vessel) or of deadweight (the total carrying capacity with the ship at her load line, expressed in weight).

The formulae have been re-written several times as shipowners found ways to get round the calculation and more recently to simplify it.

The calculation is now defined by an IMO convention.

 

[Tranona]

The lift that puts you on the hard measures tonnage you could use one of those.

What absolute rubbish. You clearly have no idea what is involved in a tonnage survey for Part 1 registration.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, when we had ours measured at the insistence of the finance company the job had nothing to do with weight, all done by tape measure. Our official figure is something like 1.5 times the actual weight of the boat.

How much allowance did you get for "apprentice space"? Seem to remember it was 0.3 on my old Eventide.

 

[vyv_cox]

How much allowance did you get for "apprentice space"? Seem to remember it was 0.3 on my old Eventide.

Don't remember that one. It was in 1994 is my excuse.

 

[BrianH]

Yes, when we had ours measured at the insistence of the finance company the job had nothing to do with weight, all done by tape measure. Our official figure is something like 1.5 times the actual weight of the boat.

The builder's certificate of my boat says 5.1 tonnes, the only crane with a weight-gauge that has lifted her read 7.1 tonnes (in cruising trim with fuel and water aboard) and the Part 1 measurement (made in Italy by a UK surveyor) gave 9.04 Tonnage.

So, a similar relationship of displacement and Part 1 measurement ... although I'm quite aware they are very different kinds of values.

 

[vyv_cox]

The builder's certificate of my boat says 5.1 tonnes, the only crane with a weight-gauge that has lifted her read 7.1 tonnes (in cruising trim with fuel and water aboard) and the Part 1 measurement (made in Italy by a UK surveyor) gave 9.04 Tonnage.

So, a similar relationship of displacement and Part 1 measurement ... although I'm quite aware they are very different kinds of values.

Our displacement is officially 5.8 tonnes, weight on the hoist is 7.0 and our registered tonnage is 9.13.

 

[Kukri]

Our displacement is officially 5.8 tonnes, weight on the hoist is 7.0 and our registered tonnage is 9.13.

In which case, assuming that you were on the hoist in cruising condition, your deadweight including the constant and unpumpables is 1.2 tons. Which seems about right!

 

[geem]

I seem to remember the "183 day rule" has been tested and found to be wanting. So the old, flimsily defined condition now applies: "normally resident", "established". Much easier to meet if you spend months outside the UK but retain property, family etc back home.

I had a battle 3months ago with Cardiff with regard to to renewal of my SSR. The 183 day rule is a rule of thumb they use. As you say it is all about 'normally resident' it is actually very easy to prove if you have a UK bank account, property in the U.K., a UK pension and family. We eventually got our SSR renewed even though we are currently cruising out of the UK and won't be back in the UK until next year.