Toilet problems ... what next

[Jonny_H]

Ok, I've followed the forum advice posted in the last couple of weeks, but am still having issues:

The toilet is pumping out fine, but I can't get any water to flush through the toilet.

I've tried the following this weekend:

1) Fill the bowl to the rim and pump out
2) Take the pump apart and 'prime' by filling the pump and all inlet pipes with water and then re-assembling
3) Cooking oil down the pump rod to help create a seal
4) New gasket for the inlet switch (and a liberal coating of vaseline on the flaps to help seal)

In between each of the above step 1 was repeated.

Best result I got was 2 or 3 small dribbles of inlet water into the bowl and a foul sulphor smell to follow, but still no flushing water!!

Any advice? (Toilet in an RM69)

Jonny

 

[Topcat47]

Which one is it? Lavac, Baby Blake, WHY?

I can only think of three reasons why you might be having this problem, Air in the inlet line, a blockage in the inlet line or a pump problem. Depending on the make, will depend where you have to look for the trouble.

The most common problem with the Lavac is that one of the seals on the seat or lid isn't doing it's job properly.

 

[VicS]

I dont remember the previous posts but several possibilies

<ul type="square"> [*]The inlet is blocked or the seacock shut [*]the inlet pipe is blocked [*]There is an air leak into the inlet somewhere. Antisyphon device on the inlet pipe ??? [*]The pump is cream crackered [/list]

Solution: fit a Lavac /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[VicMallows]

If you have a 'Brydon' style toilet (there are many others similar) I may have a suggestion, as I had the same problem a week ago!.

When I stripped the pump down, my problem was that the BOTTOM metal flange retaining the 'O'-ring pump seal had corroded, allowing the pump to work on the down stroke but not on the up stroke which draws in the water.

I put the good flange from the top on the bottom (if you see what I mean), and made a suitable large washer out of scrap plastic to support the 'O'-ring at the top, with the addition of the corroded flange.......................

Needs Must /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif .... but it's working the best I can remember!

Now....if anyone can think of a source of the proper flanges? .... and would you really manufacure them out of mild steel?


Vic

 

[Anonymous]

From your description you have a Jabsco? I think Vic is right, blocked inlet probably near the seacock. Is the seacock open? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Or check marine growth on the little strainer cover underwater. You need to dive down to get to that - should be possible, and take a screwdriver with you to poke the crud out. I need a weight belt.

 

[Bilgediver]

Most marine toilets have two pumpimg systems....a pump to fill the toilet and a pump to empty the toilet.

The common denominator is the piston and cylinder. Her one side of the piston pumps clean water and the other side pumps the dirty water.

You will see from this that by putting water in the bowl you are by passing the clean water pump so this will not help at all in solving the problem though is a way to get flushed with success if there is a supply of water and a bucket /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The clean water pump has valves on the pump body and it is possible to lift the suction valve with a trigger so that the pump stops pumping . This is when you are pumping out but not filling.

There are several reasons why you are not managing to prime the pump and these are as said before..

1...Sea cock closed or inlet chocked with plastic etc.

2....Anti syphon device has been incorrectly fitted beween sea cock and pump and is allowing too much air so the pump will not lift sea water.

3....The valves on the pump were left in the pump out mode over winter and are now deformed and any springs corroded so prevent the pump priming.

You should be able to find spares for your pump and so long as you carefully note where the various O rings and wire springs went as well as rubber valve parts then you should not have a problem.

If removing the toilet from the boat then at least put a wooden bung in the sea cock as well as closing it...A boat owenr up here is regretting that he did not /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif


John

 

[Pye_End]

If you look at the bottom of the post he says it is an RM69.

If it is the older style then the flapper valve is a good place to start - I presume that putting it back together it is the right way round?

Restricion in the inlet (ie fouling) sounds most likely. The old stlye I think can be pumped with more vigour than the new ones - these seem to stall if pumped too fast (at least mine does!).

Also a good seal in the piston is a big help. Worth taking the pump apart and giving this the once over - especially checking the state of the rod at the bottom. The biggest problem with the old style is that if it goes wrong (and is full if you get my drift!) you have to find some way of emptying it all over the floor to get at the piston! On mine the thread at the bottom of the piston had thinned and eventually broke off - not a nice job. Worth changing to the assembly that you can take apart from the top!

If you can get to enough of the hose it may be possible to take it off the toilet inlet and lower it enough so you can get some seawater pressure behind it, and empty into a bucket. Sometime this produces enough flow to clear things through.

 

[Richard10002]

Are you sure the pipe isnt blocked, and that the seacock is letting water in?

I'm sure you will have tried it but:

close the seacock. Take the inlet pipe off the seacock. Open the seacock for a fraction of a second... you will know how long as water should gush in, but not so fast that you cant stop it - have a bung standing by just in case you cant close the seacock.

If this works, flush water up the inlet pipe from the seacock end and see if it comes out at the toilet end, (I would probably be incredibly unhygeinic and use the freshwater hose). I would probably flush water the other way as well, for the sake of completeness.

The above eliminates, or identifies, a problem between the sea and the inlet end of the pump.

If this works, put the inlet pipe, seacock end, in a bucket full of water, and see if you can pump water from the bucket to the toilet.

Take the pump off completely, and see if it works in a sink or a bucket - you might need to connect a few short pipes to facilitate this - you probably only need to test the inlet side of the pump as you know the discharge side works.

Have you fitted a complete service kit to the pump - some of the rubber bits are quite sensitive, particularly the bit with the metal weight from what I have read here and elsewhere.

A new pump is only about £80, as against a service kit at about £30.... so you could buy a new pump rather than a service kit, and have one as a spare if they both work.

In fact a new toilet is only about £120, (looks like this includes the pump).

If the pipe works without the pump, and the pump works without the pipe, I'm stumped as to why they wouldnt work together. perhaps you then replace the pipe - perhaps the pipe between the pump and the toilet, (inlet side), first.

I would hope with the answers to the above, you find the precise area of the problem..... maybe <g>

Good Luck

 

[samwise]

It does sound like a blockage on the inlet side, either at the seacock or on the filter plate on the hull. During a haul out of our old boat I took the plate off and poked down the seacock (Blakes) and dislodged quite a bit of wildlife. How old is the pipework? It could be that there has been a substantial calcium build up inside, which wouldn't help. Then there is the pump itself. As other posters have said, take it apart and have a good look at the condition of all the bits. While it may be possible to restore normal service with an overhaul kit, a replacement pump may be a better option in both long and short term.

 

[vyv_cox]

As far as I can remember, every time I ever tried to pump out without opening the inlet seacock first it was impossible to move the piston. The negative pressure will not allow it to move. Your problem sounds much more like a suction valve seating problem. When you push the piston down it draws water through the valve but when you lift the piston the valve fails to close and the water is pushed back out again. Try artificially 'closing the valve, by squeezing the suction pipe when the piston is down, to see if this gives you some flow. You will then know where to look to fix it.

 

[davehu]

Hi Johnny,

I had an Rm 69 for a number of years, in fact I stiil have it fully serviced and waiting to find a home for it. I had the same problems that you describe. The problem is I think the flap valve which is operated by the change over lever, this get hard with age and then will not seal. The best solution is a new gasket. It seals by the weight attached to it and is lifted off with the lever. When it is closed by the weight the water should then pump in, its lifted off to pump out. If you leave it in the lifted off position for a pronlonged period the flap sets itself bent, I found that the safest way is to allow the flap to go down when you leave the boat, which will be quite safe because you have the seacocks turned off, the lever must be returned to the pump out postion when the seacocks are open. If you want an RM 69 I have one in my Shed in Surrey/ Portsmouth you can have.

 

[tross]

Replace it - I had so many problems with mine I threw it out in the end. The problem maybe a crack around the inlet pipe where it joins the valve plate - it took me ages to find that one!

I have a service kit for this model spare if you want to make me an offer - retail was about 36squid!

 

[Jonny_H]

All,

Thanks for the replies (I have only just had chance to read them) - I think the initial confusion over what model has now been resolved!

I actually have two RM69's on the boat, the forward one seems ok (apart from the above problem), the one in the aft heads needs a new pump as the plunger rod is corroded badly.

I think the problem must be with the inlet pipe - I've replaced all other gaskets etc using the (very expensive) service kit. I've tried altering the air hole fitting at the top of the pipe - but to no avail! Last chance seems to be to check the pipe for a blockage and the seacock (which may explain the bad sulphor smell?)

I was considering just scrapping them both and fitting two new Jabsco's. The pipework all appears to be in roughly the same place for the Jabsco's so that shouldn't cause too much concern for me - does anyone know what the footprint is like (I assume its too much to hope for that the bolt holes on the RM69 base would match a Jabsco?!)

(New pump & service kit = £95 - a new Jabsco is only £99!)

Thanks

Jonny

 

[Pye_End]

[ QUOTE ]

I was considering just scrapping them both and fitting two new Jabsco's. The pipework all appears to be in roughly the same place for the Jabsco's so that shouldn't cause too much concern for me - does anyone know what the footprint is like (I assume its too much to hope for that the bolt holes on the RM69 base would match a Jabsco?!)

(New pump & service kit = £95 - a new Jabsco is only £99!)

Thanks

Jonny

[/ QUOTE ]

I did the same in the end, but fitted a new RM69 for under £100. Originally looked at replacing the pump assembly to the modern style but wasn't really worth it. Not sure of the benefits of the Jabsco over RM - they look pretty similar. More people seem to stock the Jabsco spares though which is handy. Although it has been absolutely fine, afterwards I thought that I should have spent more time looking at the Lavac.

Bolts - no chance! Think I used one of them and re-drilled the others. No doubt you will be able to jiggle the Jabsco to do much the same thing!

 

[pampas]

something stupid like suction valve wrorg way round.

 

[Pete7]

Just replaced a RM69 with the Jabasco on our Sealine. Bolt holes don't line up so I filled them and started again. Hoses also shot so replaced them at the same time. The loo was sat on a 1/2" piece of wood that was past its sell by date so a new one covers the old holes and all held down with 4 new coach bolts. Blocked heads just isn't funny, therefore I was willing to replace and know they work rather than risk a nightmare away from home/tools/spares.

Pete