armchairsailor
Well-Known Member
Around here there's a product called CLR, which has lactic acid as the main ingredient IIRC. Also coke is good - phosphoric acid being particularly strong.
Toilet pipes crud build up
- Thread starter davidmh
- Start date
RichardS
N/A
That's not correct I'm afraid. Phosphoric acid is a weak acid and the amount in coke is extremely small. Vinegar is much more acidic.
Richard
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vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
None whatsoever. When I was writing one of my articles about failing seacocks a few years ago I tried to find a simple method of identifying whether the metal was brass or bronze. I exposed valves of both to hydrochloric acid for periods up to half an hour. Neither metal was even stained or discoloured by this treatment.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
I find that very surprising indeed especially the brass!
Dawnrazor
Well-Known Member
Got one of these on the water inlet, heads always smells very clean and fresh. It came with the boat and I didn't remove it.
True, it does keep the Khazi fresh smelling. But.......the plastic fitting is a cheap and flimsy affair. Over the weekend i noticed mine had split and was leaking badly. It hadn't been knocked as it was located out of the way. It's not a particularly robust fitting, but that aside it keeps the smell down nicely. After sailing i flush the head through with fresh water to keep the whiff down generally.
Lee-San advertise a descaler for pipework - Anyone used it?
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
As a chemist I still find it surprising, when the opportunity presents itself I will.
maby
Well-Known Member
Well, your digestive system is pretty good at keeping it in your stomach. Hydrochloric acid is pretty corrosive and only your stomach lining is designed to withstand it - if it got further down your digestive tract, you would know all about it!
No Regrets
Well-Known Member
I bought a 1kg bag of citric acid (food grade!) mixed it with warm water and flushed it, leaving plenty in the pipes and WC.
Left it for a week flushed and it was all sparkly again. Did the domestic water system, and when I replaced the immersion, it was all like brand new inside.
Costs a couple of quid off eBay. Can't beat it!
Left it for a week flushed and it was all sparkly again. Did the domestic water system, and when I replaced the immersion, it was all like brand new inside.
Costs a couple of quid off eBay. Can't beat it!
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
If you can replace your pipe then do so , there not that expensive and you won't be doing it every year .
There after use hot vinegar or HCA has many have said .
Unless your pipe exit the sea cock well about water level , no amount of pumping it going to clean all the sea water out .
We are very unlucky we have one part of our pipe about 8 mts long we just can't remove unless we going to demolish the boat . Who every put that pipe in need shooting .
What I managed to do is cut the swan neck and put a plastic U bend in place has this is the hightest point .
Every so offen with the U bend remove I can pore HC acid down both sides of the pipe but only after removing all the water from the pipes first , then leave it to work , this is keeping the pipes clean of any build up .
The pipes are from 2001 and we use the toilet every day of each years so probably in any one year it's used more then most here would use it in 10 years .
There after use hot vinegar or HCA has many have said .
Unless your pipe exit the sea cock well about water level , no amount of pumping it going to clean all the sea water out .
We are very unlucky we have one part of our pipe about 8 mts long we just can't remove unless we going to demolish the boat . Who every put that pipe in need shooting .
What I managed to do is cut the swan neck and put a plastic U bend in place has this is the hightest point .
Every so offen with the U bend remove I can pore HC acid down both sides of the pipe but only after removing all the water from the pipes first , then leave it to work , this is keeping the pipes clean of any build up .
The pipes are from 2001 and we use the toilet every day of each years so probably in any one year it's used more then most here would use it in 10 years .
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Elessar
Well-Known Member
Got one of these on the water inlet, heads always smells very clean and fresh. It came with the boat and I didn't remove it.
Just masking the problem. Convert to fresh water flush. I’ll never go back.
wizard
Well-Known Member
I guess then with no seawater flush you don't get the build up others are talking about?
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
What I did was take the pipe off aand smash it against the side of the pontoon all the crud comes out, anything hard and angled will do.
maby
Well-Known Member
It will certainly greatly reduce it. Trouble is that I already have to refill the water tanks irritatingly frequently - I really don't want the additional water consumption of flushing the toilet as well!
Elessar
Well-Known Member
It’s a good question and I don’t know. Time will tell. I’ve had fresh for about 5 years now.
What I do know is the toilets don’t smell and are easy to keep clean.
None of the horrible yellow staining.
I shower on board so use a fair amount of water. I don’t actually notice increased filling frequency but frugal water users would. Worth it though, getting a hose out to fill it is no hardship, I would normally want to hose the boat or dinghy down by then anyway.
If I was going to do an off grid, extended cruise away from taps, and didn’t have a water maker, I’d do as my friends ferretti mobo does.
He has 2 domestic pumps and a Y valve. If he needs to save water, salt water is diverted to one pump which feeds the heads and a galley tap.
Put the valve back and both pumps use fresh.
I’m never off grid for long enough for it to bother me.
Edit
This is the antisyphon valve needed to convert to fresh.
Jabsco 37038-1012 Solenoid For Fresh Water Electric Toilets
Part No. JAB-37038-1012
They are not cheap at £120. The footprint meant I couldn’t easily change the loo.
For the other loo I replaced it with a Tecma. That was £500 (and the list price is £1000) but it’s what the multi million £ boats use. All china down to the deck like a home loo, no nooks and crannies, all the pipes hidden in the bowl. Almost unblockable and super quiet. Probably the best £500 I ever spent on the boat.
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davidmh
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all your replies, there is no total solution only reducing the problem.
The main things seem to be
Do not leave undulated urine in the pipe, pump it through with lots on water. Pump though freshwater to clear out the salt if you are leaving the boat for a few days. Leaving Vinegar in the pipe seems to prevent the crud getting started. Don't fiddle with the old pipework it breaks up the crud and blocks things up.
Still a bit worried about the HCAcid. I have an early very solid looking seacock with Polypropylene stamped on it, what will 30% HCA do to that and what will it do the rubber valves in the toilet, the plastic u bends and the plastic parts of the toilet. I am sure the chemists on the forum will have the answers.
I have decided to take the pipe out and replace it over the winter. Still undecided whether to replace the whole toilet, Replace the pump unit with a twist and lock or just replace all the seals in the existing Toilet.
Thanks
David MH
The main things seem to be
Do not leave undulated urine in the pipe, pump it through with lots on water. Pump though freshwater to clear out the salt if you are leaving the boat for a few days. Leaving Vinegar in the pipe seems to prevent the crud getting started. Don't fiddle with the old pipework it breaks up the crud and blocks things up.
Still a bit worried about the HCAcid. I have an early very solid looking seacock with Polypropylene stamped on it, what will 30% HCA do to that and what will it do the rubber valves in the toilet, the plastic u bends and the plastic parts of the toilet. I am sure the chemists on the forum will have the answers.
I have decided to take the pipe out and replace it over the winter. Still undecided whether to replace the whole toilet, Replace the pump unit with a twist and lock or just replace all the seals in the existing Toilet.
Thanks
David MH
maby
Well-Known Member
Well, I would not put 30% HCL in there - too much respect for the components of my expensive electric flush heads. I may well dilute some brick cleaner down to something like 10% and let that stand for a while.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
I would had thought an electric flush toilet would had kept it self and the pipes clean ,
we been useing HCI for tens of years , we not had any problem with sea cock plastic bends , toilet or rubbers , as it happen I just did my pipe the other day .
Poring in HCI from the swan neck down both ends of the pipe , the rubber valve was left in place .
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
If your 30% HCl is the stuff bought in red bottles throughout the Mediterranean it is not 30% w/w, but 30% of concentrated acid, which itself is a 37% solution. So the actual concentration is around 8-9%. We have been pouring it into our electric toilet for 10 years, absolutely no reaction with any component.
Allan
Well-Known Member
I used to work on acid etch machines for the printed circuit industry, they were all plastic. I think Polypropylene but I'm not sure. They had various seals and plastic pumps which worked for years. Anything metal would disappear in a very short time. I can't remember what acid was used but I would be wary about leaving it in a seacock as it would remove copper in minutes in our machines.
Allan