To upgrade or not?

[Norfolknick]

A quandary! I have owned Seabee - a 1974 Shipman 28 now for 3 years. In that time I have run aground (only once of significance - the rest was just testing the temp of the mud! ) I have done a lot to the boat - new standing rigging, new engine, new prop, new upholstery, installed an oven, new electrics throughout, new electronics, new Genny, new sprayhood and boom cover.... and I have learnt loads!!
Unfortunately its not just me in the boat and whilst I love sailing Seabee - she is rather nippy! Which has led to some minor disagreements with the crew (SWMBO and my father) and has indeed shaken their confidence somewhat.

The intention when we bought Seabee was always as a starter - to make sure we were committed enough to make investment worthwhile. To that end we have enjoyed a number of weekend sails and some great day sailing out of the Orwell, but due to the flighty nature of the boat have not managed to get further afield (although I am well up for some single handed deliveries in the future). Thus I am considering trading Seabee in for something perhaps a little more manageable and something that we will not need to replace for a long time. In the mix are a Sadler 32, a Rustler 31 and perhaps a Moody 31 or a Westerly Fulmar if I could get one at a good price. They are all of a similar size but designed more towards the cruising side. They are all more modern in design and are easily manageable either short handed or single handed.

Any thoughts most welcome for this troubled (in a good way) owner.

Thanks

Nick

 

[Gargleblaster]

A Shipman 28 is an all time classic. A good sailor as you have found out, well designed and can go anywhere with very few crew. With the work you have done to her you will probably not get your money back and have to do similar to your next boat.

Going from a Shipman 28 at 29 feet long to a 31 or 32 feet boat is not going to gain you much room but will probably cost you a lot more money. I'd stick with the Shipman 28 until you start thinking you want something 36 feet long.

 

[tillergirl]

Confusing title

Now I thought this was going to be a thread on Vista to Windows 7!

 

[Norfolknick]

Tiller Girl surely thats easy - go Mac!

Glayva - Many thanks for the comments, size is less of the issue, its more stability and control. The Sadler and Rustler are far more balanced and thus more easily controlled short handed. The Shipman is far from so and thus requires constant attention - which of course is part of the fun for me - less so for the crew.

 

[Otter]

I disagree, the move from 28' to 31' is a big one. The interior volume of a 31 footer will be at least 20% bigger and that will make a big difference. Also not sure why the move to 36' is regarded as a given? Some people keep getting bigger boats but many of us stick at a size that works for us. 36' is a very big craft and if his family is already nervous about a 28' then 36' might seem very daunting!
Lots of 30 footers with a more cruising orientated design and plenty of cats at 26'-29' that would certainly be more family friendly.

 

[MoodySabre]

I had a Snapdragon 26 and the jump to a Moody 31 seemed huge at the time - as Simon says, the volume is much greater. The Moody is however a much easier boat to sail, stable and comfortable and easy to singlehand. Because of this the increased size was not a problem.

I also don't understand the reference to a 36footer. I have thoht about "upgrading" but that wouldn't mean a bigger boat - 31ft is fine for me. Newer would be nice but getting the boat set up for my sailing is more important.

 

[exfinnsailor]

Boat or Crew

Hi

What don't the crew like about the boat you have . You have spent a considerable amout of cash on it and are unlightly to see much of it back if you sell .. Perhaps a sheet of paper .. For and Against and see what the problem is .. Our Beneteau 323 can be an interesting sail and is very lively and some points of sailing .. Think it might be wise to find out what the crew dont like ..

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

SWMBO's point of view............

Yes, I would definitely get SWMBO's input into choosing another boat. As a SWMBO myself, I would say that you need something that your crew are happy with. If you're not going far because of the boat, then perhaps you're right in wanting something else. SWMBO's are definitely tempted by creature comforts on board. For example the heads in our boat are to die for. Plenty of room, easy to keep clean, very nice. The galley is also very nice and I do a lot of cooking on board. The bunk in our cabin is extremely comfortable with loads of room. These things matter to a SWMBO and being comfortable can take your mind off what the boat is doing when you sail.

Performance wise..... I have never been scared on our boat. She's sails well and I feel perfectly safe!

We have a Beneteau 32.3. Perhaps taking your crew to view some boats is your next move. Good luck and happy sailing.

 

[Norfolknick]

Mrs SM2 that's a great insight into the psyche! many thanks.

The creature comforts are very certainly high on the cons list of our Shipman - apparently the lack of a shower/decent heads set up is a snag. The other problem is the size of the bunks - despite the amazing new memory foam cushions! Hey ho.

Id never considered the Ben, but will investigate it now its had 2 recommendations.

Many thanks fellow forumites - as ever your input has been most useful - please keep it coming.

Nick

 

[Gargleblaster]

The Sadler and Rustler are far more balanced and thus more easily controlled short handed. The Shipman is far from so and thus requires constant attention - which of course is part of the fun for me - less so for the crew.

Hmm, this comment really surprises me. I've never sailed a Shipman 28 except that it was the boat I took my ICC on which involved sailing a short triangular course. But I have raced against one and then sailed in company with that Shipman 28 to Poland - I came back and the Shipman went on to St Petersburg.

I was always impressed with the way the Shipman could sail hard on the wind with only a full Genoa and no main. And neither of the owners of Shipmans I know have ever mentioned anything about weather or lee helm.

I know there was a difference in the anchor well between the Swedish and Irish built Shipmans but am unaware of any differences in sail plan or rigging overall. Is 'Seabee' Irish or Swedish?

 

[sailorman]

Yes, I would definitely get SWMBO's input into choosing another boat. As a SWMBO myself, I would say that you need something that your crew are happy with. If you're not going far because of the boat, then perhaps you're right in wanting something else. SWMBO's are definitely tempted by creature comforts on board. For example the heads in our boat are to die for. Plenty of room, easy to keep clean, very nice. The galley is also very nice and I do a lot of cooking on board. The bunk in our cabin is extremely comfortable with loads of room. These things matter to a SWMBO and being comfortable can take your mind off what the boat is doing when you sail.

Performance wise..... I have never been scared on our boat. She's sails well and I feel perfectly safe!

We have a Beneteau 32.3. Perhaps taking your crew to view some boats is your next move. Good luck and happy sailing.

Mrs Sailorman prefers a boat that is good @ sea in all weathers to a "nice toilet". given that, she would prefer an aft of mid-ships head if it were possible.

 

[Gargleblaster]

Mrs Sailorman prefers a boat that is good @ sea in all weathers to a "nice toilet". given that, she would prefer an aft of mid-ships head if it were possible.

A bucket in the cockpit seems to work well for stability in a big seaway and meets her need for the heads to aft of midships.

 

[Norfolknick]

Reply to Glayva

Glayva - Many thanks for your points.

Seabee is Swedish built which means she was designed with a trim tab that sat on the aft end of the keel. You will note the past tense - unfortunately Seabee lost hers at some stage in the distant past - well before I acquired her. Whilst I would love to manufacture and refit this tab, it is well beyond my DIY skills and wallet for outsourcing.

The result is that she has to be reefed really early to avoid weather helm, and even then still suffers badly in gusts. That being said, I have developed a much better of understanding of sailing under genny alone - which will still provide 5-6kts in anything above 14kts of breeze.

As I said in my original post - I love sailing Seabee, she is fast, responsive and loves going upwind. Unfortunately the fast and responsive elements are read as scary, tippy and touchy by my crew (and most importantly SWMBO). I am in no means looking at shirking away completely, I would just prefer a happy and confident crew and am thus looking at something a bit more substantial / cruising orientated vessel.

 

[sailorman]

A bucket in the cockpit seems to work well for stability in a big seaway and meets her need for the heads to aft of midships.

Ah you own a Ship from the same Stable as me

 

[Otter]

Lately I've been day dreaming about owning a monohull (Hustler 30). So thanks for the wake up call chaps, if it means going back to the bucket I think I just remembered one of the reasons we sail a cat!

 

[Mrs Sea Mist II]

Noooooooooooooo

A bucket in the cockpit seems to work well for stability in a big seaway and meets her need for the heads to aft of midships.

Bucket and chuck it eh? Not for me, or I guess most SWMBO's! You just cannot beat the heads we now have in our Beneteau, and she sails nicely. Is there any need to choose between the two I ask myself?

 

[CPD]

Hi Nick,
I went through a similar process to yourself earlier this year in that I owned a Westerly Centaur and had her, as a first and intended learner boat, for just over 3 years. I wanted a fast cruiser that could double as a weekend marina hopping boat when all the family were together and ended up buying a Beneteau First 345. I agree with what others have said about the relative size of the leap that you make, in terms of making it worthwhile. I had a good look at Moody 31's (Moodysabre of this parish has a fine example) and would have looked further had I not come accross the beneteau. The leap however has been huge and the learning curve although now far less steep is still very much there. On the plus side however, I now have a boat which will see me through for at least ................... and there's another thing because I always thought there would be aother boat after this one, but now I am really thinking, maybe not. It has ticked every box so far. the only thing I miss a little is the onfidence I had in the Centaur to single hand her, tho that will come with time and a few more modifications.

 

[johnalison]

Any thoughts most welcome for this troubled (in a good way) owner.
Nick

I think all the boats you've mentioned would be sensible choices, though I think the Rustler would be a bit slower than the others. If you are accustomed to a 1970s design you might well be happier with one of them than a more modern Beneteau/Bavaria. When it comes to choosing you may find matters such as the internal layout and the condition of the boat and its equipment more important than the hull design, and sooner or later just make a decision and stick to it.

The effective size of a boat varies with the cube of its length, but not its speed, so a 31'er is vastly bigger than 28', but not much faster, except that in cruising terms it will have a longer waterline and give an easier ride and probably motor a lot quicker.