To spinnaker or not to spinnaker - that is the question!

[dazautomatics]

After much head scratching and many discussions with other sailors we are completely baffled on long distance downwind strategies.

We are discussing at the moment about a run across the Med to Ionian Greece from Gibraltar as a shakedown and then later in the year off to the Caribbean. Our previous experience of the Med included much motoring as we encountered a lot of extremely light following winds.

Please could we have your experiences of flying a spinnaker and whether this is a worthwhile investment for the possible route we have planned. Comments from people so far have varied from them collapsing due to rolling in big Atlantic swells and therefore pointless to people who swear by them as being the only way to downwind sail.

We have an old Dufour 35 which is very heavy loaded for cruising and below 10 knots, sailing off the wind is incredibly slow or even worse, non existent.

 

[Cariadco]

After years of using a Spinny on my old 40 footer, my new boat came with a cruising Shute...and what a difference!!!
The Shute's a piece of P*** compared to that nightmare Spinny. OK the shute is in a sock and the spinny wasn't, but no matter. No more stress, no more running around like a mad thing, no more setting that dam spinny pole....
Downwind, no probs, can sail as close as about 40 deg's and any big changes in the wind, just pop up there, to the pointy bit, pull a rope and Dara....it's all disappeared into a big 'ol Sausage!!
I'll never go back.

Regards.

 

[TonyMS]

Get a genaker. Rolls up round its own luff. Pulls nearly (but not quite) as well as a spin. Haven't been transAtlantic, but in the Med downwind sailing always seems unpredictable, with the wind constantly changing force and direction. So, an easily furled sail allows you to set it with confidence, and takes the hassle out of switching it on and off

Tony MS

 

[charles_reed]

Get a genaker. Rolls up round its own luff. Pulls nearly (but not quite) as well as a spin. Haven't been transAtlantic, but in the Med downwind sailing always seems unpredictable, with the wind constantly changing force and direction. So, an easily furled sail allows you to set it with confidence, and takes the hassle out of switching it on and off

Tony MS

I'd second the suggestion of a genniker - unlike a spinnaker it's effective as a reaching sail - and though not as good straight downwind, you can always tack downwind, Mine is on an A frame about 1.2m in front of the forestay and, in the Med, has almost totally replaced my use of the spinnaker.
Harken do a very nice little furler - being single-handed and as my genniker is only 890 ft2 - I didn't bother to fit one.
As to flying a spinnaker in the Atlantic - swell is an occasional problem - more likely is a broach occasioned by a quartering sea over about F5.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

+1 cruising chute the way to go

 

[dazautomatics]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your advise, we have a cruising chute with a snuffer aboard which we purchased before we left the UK last year and have been contemplating making or ordering a bowsprit kit so that it works better with the main or just doesn’t rub on the pulpit so much. But this sail doesn't work for wind directly behind us so we were concerned about having to drop the chute and then putting up two head sails when on longer downwind runs.

This was our thinking about the spinnaker as this can be used from 90 degrees and also that a large spinnaker used with the main would help us along in very light airs. At the moment the main is back winding the chute so we can’t use both together. Maybe a very good point is being made over the risk of broaching the boat mid Atlantic, this makes me think this might not be such a good idea after all.

 

[silver-fox]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your advise, we have a cruising chute with a snuffer aboard which we purchased before we left the UK last year and have been contemplating making or ordering a bowsprit kit so that it works better with the main or just doesn’t rub on the pulpit so much. But this sail doesn't work for wind directly behind us so we were concerned about having to drop the chute and then putting up two head sails when on longer downwind runs.

This was our thinking about the spinnaker as this can be used from 90 degrees and also that a large spinnaker used with the main would help us along in very light airs. At the moment the main is back winding the chute so we can’t use both together. Maybe a very good point is being made over the risk of broaching the boat mid Atlantic, this makes me think this might not be such a good idea after all.

Suggest you consider a Tacker together with either your cruising chute or spinnaker.

Much cheaper and easier than fitting a bowsprit and it will save your pulpit.

http://www.atninc.com/atn-tacker-sailing-equipment.shtml

 

[pagoda]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your advise, we have a cruising chute with a snuffer aboard which we purchased before we left the UK last year and have been contemplating making or ordering a bowsprit kit so that it works better with the main or just doesn’t rub on the pulpit so much. But this sail doesn't work for wind directly behind us so we were concerned about having to drop the chute and then putting up two head sails when on longer downwind runs.

This was our thinking about the spinnaker as this can be used from 90 degrees and also that a large spinnaker used with the main would help us along in very light airs. At the moment the main is back winding the chute so we can’t use both together. Maybe a very good point is being made over the risk of broaching the boat mid Atlantic, this makes me think this might not be such a good idea after all.

Cruising chutes are not at their best entirely downwind. You can often get better VMG by deep reaching and gybing from time to time. That needs some proper attention if the wind gets above 10 Kts, but is pretty easy in lighter airs. Swell obviously makes it trickier. You can cut out some of the "main blanking the chute" problem by deep reaching, rather than a dead run?
I've goosewinged a main and a cruising chute with good effect, though not with much of a following sea, which would need a huge amount of concentration.
If you really want to go downwind for a LONG way, use 2 jibs form a twin foil, or a conventional spinnaker.
It depends a lot upon who is on watch at the time - and what their comfort level is.

Graeme

 

[NOHOH]

Have you thought of a Twizzle Rig?........Downwind sailing for long passages.....automatic roll damping...and can be reefed easily down to a pair of "ears"....if it really starts to blow...

More details here:- http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/

 

[Glyka]

All gennakers are not the same. I had a large (91m2) on Glyka (old Dufour 34 BTW) and only used it twice (while racing and with decent crew).
I later ordered an assymetric (72 m2) but, unlike most of my friends, I asked for the "downwind" type not the all-rounder. Big difference. I have used as downwind as 160-170 degrees. Note that most of my sailing is in races.
Nevertheless under light winds gybing proved to give the best VMG (which is also true for most spinnaker-crew combinations).
Talk to your sailmaker!

 

[capnsensible]

After much head scratching and many discussions with other sailors we are completely baffled on long distance downwind strategies.

We are discussing at the moment about a run across the Med to Ionian Greece from Gibraltar as a shakedown and then later in the year off to the Caribbean. Our previous experience of the Med included much motoring as we encountered a lot of extremely light following winds.

Please could we have your experiences of flying a spinnaker and whether this is a worthwhile investment for the possible route we have planned. Comments from people so far have varied from them collapsing due to rolling in big Atlantic swells and therefore pointless to people who swear by them as being the only way to downwind sail.

We have an old Dufour 35 which is very heavy loaded for cruising and below 10 knots, sailing off the wind is incredibly slow or even worse, non existent.

Hiya Darren, will be in all weekend for once! Can show you how we rigged AF for our transats using pole and boom to put two headsails out. Easy and safe! Chute came out of bag once.....

CS

 

[geem]

Have sailed across Atlantic width a spinnaker and twistleyard rig. They both have their places. The spinnaker was good in light winds. We had it flying for 36 hrs at one point with the wind directly behind. In this scenario, I don't believe there is anything to compare. You need a pole to get the spinnaker out from behind the main. If you drop the main, you are at a power disadvantage. In light winds you need all the sail area you can get.
In stronger winds and when the wind may be coming from other than straight behind, the twistleyard is useful. We flew the furled genoa and a second smaller genoa (set free) on the twistleyard. It worked well and was easier for my wife to trim whilst I was asleep.
My view would be to have both if possible.

 

[[2574]]

This is a really good article about using a cruising chute, particularly how to fly it like a spinnaker: http://www.southern.co.uk/downloads/LIBS Cruising Chute 2011.pdf

I've recently been poling our big 150% genoa out and putting a preventer on the main. This setup has given us relaxed and highly effective dead downwind sailing.

 

[TQA]

I am happy to fly a symetrical spinnaker or assy on a pole in benign conditions because I have always had a sock. Usually I am single handed or with one other fairly inexperienced crew but even with a strong crew I have learned not to fly it at night. Gremlins appear after dark and seek to wrap the spinnaker around the forestay. Sometimes so tightly that it can not be unwrapped without sending someone up the forestay which is not something I wuld like to do at sea. [ No rockstar bowperson aboard you see ]

Most years in St Lucia one or two boats arrive with the spi wrapped in such a manner after the transatlantic.

 

[KellysEye]

Wed had a spinnaker on board but didn't use it, I don't like one up when two handed. Therefore we bought a twistle rig which can be kept up at night because it's on a furler, easily reefed if the wind starts to pick up or if you see a squall approaching.

 

[Neil_Y]

I agree with Geem, twin headsails most of the time and we used a kite with snuffer in light winds. Rarely used the main when downwind sailing with a fully battened sail and swept spreaders the extra speed wasn't worth it, and there was probably less than a knot in it. I like this picture mid Atlantic on the way back we bumped into a dutch yacht that took some pictures. Not a twizzle but boom and pole, and not much rolling.

 

[rickym]

We did the Atlantic with twin headsails using the boom and a pole in a Westerly Corsair. Never had less than 20kts true all the way. As we are just me and SWMBO Asymetric works in light airs. Running deep we reef the main to stop dirty air causing the top of the asymetric to collapse and don't try to sail dead down wind.

Works for us!

 

[oldvarnish]

Parasailor?

 

[KellysEye]

I don't know if anything has changed but when we crossed in 2004 a number of yachts had Parasailers and they were all torn on passage and unrepairable.

 

[oldvarnish]

I don't know if anything has changed but when we crossed in 2004 a number of yachts had Parasailers and they were all torn on passage and unrepairable.

Not my experience, but I take down every kind of floaty sail sooner rather than later. It's such an easy-going sail that I imagine it's easy to leave it up longer than you should and that's when people get into trouble.
Don't know why they couldn't be repaired. Possibly lack of experience on the part of the repairer.