To Snape or Not

Just come back from our summer pottering.......

We got to Iken, anchored there for a couple of nights during which time we took the dinghy upto Snape at low water.

We went on a rising tide to Iken and at each turn of the withies marked a waypoint on a handheld GPS (Garmin Legend Etrex Hcx - supposed to be very accurate). We found the hardest part to navigate was between Barber's Point and the north side of Iken Church - this is where you are faced with a wide expanse of water and an invisible narrow channel. The withies are fairly widely spaced at certain limited points and even with good eyesight and a good pair of binoculars it was not always easy in a few parts. Generally though it was a case of get to the next and then you can see the one following - most of the time though you can see one or two ahead and even more in the twisty bits.

Visibility of the type of withy was helped by the red plastic cans on the plain sticks for port hand markers. There were occasional (green - but colour not easy to see at any distance) flags on the more branch-type starboard hand markers. The single stick/red can made it much easier to see as did the branch type.

Once at Iken Cliff, the withy along the shore (just past the steps leading to the house) is a starboard hand marker AFAICS though it is a single stick. The deeper water to anchor in is not easy to discern on the echosounder but is approximately in line with the withy just mentioned and the one that marks the corner as you turn to starboard (and away from the church) to run along the shore. Our first night was a little too close to the shore by the house and spent at an interesting angle. Next morning we re-anchored so that we were only just to the shore side of the transit between the two withies.

Confession and enlightenment
When we left Iken (c.5am) to head to Aldeburgh, there was already a lot of water. In the twisty bits between Iken Cliff and Iken Church we became confused by what I am now sure was an errant stick that took us off to port of the proper route. I then spent about 20 minutes and a lot of diesel converting our boat into a JCB until I became rather resigned to being stuck there for the day. I had set up the handheld GPS with a route (reversed the waypoints on the way in) but it was too busy to even monitor when you are trying to see what is before you. I presumed that the chart plotter at the chart table (Ray C80) would be no use in such very very tight/confined spaces (having looked at it since in more detail I may be wrong about that since the map detail is far, far greater than I had thought).
In the end I got out my Iphone, Google Maps, Satelite view and it showed very clearly a) where the phone was and b) where the channel was at low water. Instead of trying to go backwards it suggested the deep water was immediately ahead of us. I had nothing to lose so.........and lo and behold we were off and away again. We used the Iphone to get us round all of the twisties and a long way across the large expanses (where it is not quite as useful as there is no clearly defined channel). I did not try to navigate by my plotter/waypoints in the end and found the Iphone an incredible resource.

Iken to Snape
We went up at low tide in the Avon (Mrs P rowing all the way !) and at each withy/gateway waypointed it in the handheld, took photographs and described it (the waypoint is where we were rather than the withy itself) Many of the withies were in good condition but some were broken and some were missing. Where they were missing I made a waypoint to represent a virtual withy.


As someone said earlier in the thread, following lots of waypoints may not be the ideal way to explore this wonderful part of the area. Where the withies can be seen and their type determined they are great. The Iphone (or better a tablet with GPS) showing Google maps on satellite view is a very good backup/guide in relation to the withies/route.

I have downloaded the waypoints from the handheld but not yet typed up my notes made at the time or linked to the photographs taken; if anyone is interested in having them let me know.
 
Last edited:
Just come back from our summer pottering....... We got to Iken, anchored there for a couple of nights during which time we took the dinghy upto Snape at low water.
Great! I loved reading your post.

......this is where you are faced with a wide expanse of water and an invisible narrow channel. The withies are fairly widely spaced at certain limited points and even with good eyesight and a good pair of binoculars it was not always easy in a few parts. Generally though it was a case of get to the next and then you can see the one following - most of the time though you can see one or two ahead and even more in the twisty bits.
This was the message I brought back with me - we need the withies to be there as consistently as possible.

Visibility of the type of withy was helped by the red plastic cans on the plain sticks for port hand markers. There were occasional (green - but colour not easy to see at any distance) flags on the more branch-type starboard hand markers. The single stick/red can made it much easier to see as did the branch type.
I would love to replicate the "traditional" red plastic cans as port hand markers but I just cannot bring myself to consign dozens of plastic cans to float down the Alde. It's undoubted that the weather takes the withies out, a few at a time, whether by ice or wind, and occasionally a passing vessel takes a few out, so whatever we put up as markers has to be biodegradable otherwise the whole idea of maintaining the withies becomes controversial. My idea is to use branched ("open") withies and pruned single-stick ("closed") withies to distinguish the two sides of the channel, with coloured flags to help people understand the way it works. But if someone can come up witha biodegradable version of the red plastic cans/bottles I for one am really interested.

The deeper water to anchor in is not easy to discern on the echosounder but is approximately in line with the withy just mentioned and the one that marks the corner as you turn to starboard (and away from the church) to run along the shore. Our first night was a little too close to the shore by the house and spent at an interesting angle. Next morning we re-anchored so that we were only just to the shore side of the transit between the two withies.
We have just sold our bilge keel motor sailer and bought a motorboat which cannot take the ground so I really need to know where the safe anchorage is. A chartlet would be nice to have.

I did not try to navigate by my plotter/waypoints in the end and found the Iphone an incredible resource.... Many of the withies were in good condition but some were broken and some were missing. Where they were missing I made a waypoint to represent a virtual withy. As someone said earlier in the thread, following lots of waypoints may not be the ideal way to explore this wonderful part of the area. Where the withies can be seen and their type determined they are great. The Iphone (or better a tablet with GPS) showing Google maps on satellite view is a very good backup/guide in relation to the withies/route. I have downloaded the waypoints from the handheld but not yet typed up my notes made at the time or linked to the photographs taken; if anyone is interested in having them let me know.
How about this: would the ideal situation be to have the withies in, using the best possible method to identify which are PHMs and SHMs, and back them up with a chartlet prepared using waypoint technology? If so there's no doubt about who ought to publish the chartlet because we have the wonderful EastCoastPilot team willing and able to help.
 
Hi Two Hooters

Thanks


Dick from ECP already in touch as to possibility of taking the data forward so something may come of it. Trying to link up the many photographs from Iken to Snape with notes and it isn't easy !

Reviewing the photographs, the withies that really stand out are the red plastic cans. Understand your reservation though and open and closed ones also work well though many of the starboard ones in place are not very "branchy" and instead maybe have a couple of sticks which is not as clear.

When we anchored at The Oaks, I think I found the best water on day 2 (See above). Even better would have been a stern anchor to keep us in line as we were strongly blown over the channel away from the shore but we were upright all the time even though her stern was on the mud.

Happy to have another go at this or help with your venture and think that, between us all, we might get to your ideal solution.
 
Paint the port withies red? I can imagine quite a bit of the paint surviving a season, it sticks to wooden boats OK :D

Painting the port withies red may be the answer. Not entirely sure myself. Sounds like quite a lot of paint (and work).

It's not so much the colour of the markers that matters, it's the shape, because shapes stand out better than colours. Is there any way of making a can shape out of basketweave or something? I know I am boring because I keep banging on about biodegradation but the way I see it is this: We have an incontrovertible right to navigate tidal waters (unless they are Prohibited) and there is an ancient right existing since tyme out of mynde (1189) to insert markers to aid safe navigation of tidal waters, but if we use materials for such markers which might pollute the waters we could stir up unwelcome opposition. And anyway, none of us wants to pollute anything, do we? Nobody in their right mind can argue that withies or cotton flags are pollutants. There will probably be some arguments against plastic, and I personally hate the idea. But if we need shapes to make the Port and Starboard withies distinctive what other options are there? Thinking caps on!
 
I was part of a group of four, on a lift keel Parker 23, who went to Snape on Saturday.
The boat was ideal for the task and four was the perfect team. We had one on the helm and depth sounder, one on binoculars, one on a GPS phone with Bing aerial view and one general look-out.
Navionics app for the smart phone allows an overlay of Bing satellite images. In this particular area these were shot at low water so are ideal and actually proved more accurate that Navionics charts themselves.
On the phone - the difference between mud and water was very difficult to view in bright sunlight but the sunlight did mean that the man on binoculars got a good view of the various withies so could distinguish port and starboard (mostly).
We touched the bottom once. This was on the right bend 0.3nm north of Iken Cliffs.
We then realised that the channel was very narrow there with the deep water very close to the port withy .
We had not seen the starboard withy as it was a submerged stump that we actually found with our propeller !.
We stopped the engine and waited 30 minutes.
We arrived at Snape at 1500 - 2 1/2 hours before HW at Iken cliffs

The route back was now in deeper water so was even less obvious
but we did have a reciprocal track to follow on our GPS.



Our track is recorded here -> http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=10859754
 
Painting the port withies red may be the answer. Not entirely sure myself. Sounds like quite a lot of paint (and work).

It's not so much the colour of the markers that matters, it's the shape, because shapes stand out better than colours. Is there any way of making a can shape out of basketweave or something? I know I am boring because I keep banging on about
biodegradation but the way I see it is this: We have an incontrovertible right to navigate tidal waters (unless they are Prohibited) and there is an ancient right existing since tyme out of mynde (1189) to insert markers to aid safe navigation of tidal waters, but if we use materials for such markers which might pollute the waters we could stir up unwelcome opposition. And anyway, none of us wants to pollute anything, do we? Nobody in their right mind can argue that withies or cotton flags are pollutants. There will probably be some arguments against plastic, and I personally hate the idea. But if we need shapes to make the Port and Starboard withies distinctive what other options are there? Thinking caps on!

In Germany and the Netherlands, there are lots of passages over the Waddensea marked by withies, very accurately, and the withies are moved when the channels move (frequently). The withies are usually port ones, but since it is not always obvious which the direction of buoyage behind an island should be, you do have to be very careful! Usually they assume the direction of buoyage is west to east, except between island.
Port withies have their branches loose, and have a small bit of reflective red tape on the stem. Starboard withies, usually only near the harbour entrances, have their branches tied down and green tape. They are easy to distinguish (until run over by a motor boat and broken off to a stump!) it would be an easy convention to adopt.
 
I was part of a group of four, on a lift keel Parker 23, who went to Snape on Saturday.
Our track is recorded here -> http://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/view.do?id=10859754

Brilliant! Great that you have published your track. Quite a bit going on at the moment to try and restore the withies and make the whole thing a bit easier but meanwhile it's lovely to see boats using the river. Did you see any other craft in the upper Alde?
 
Brilliant! Great that you have published your track. Quite a bit going on at the moment to try and restore the withies and make the whole thing a bit easier but meanwhile it's lovely to see boats using the river. Did you see any other craft in the upper Alde?

In the upper reaches we saw one small sail boat - already moored at Snape. (no-one on board)
and we saw one small motorboat making its way up river at Iken church
 
Top