To seagull or not TO seagull

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AlistairM

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Hi

I have been thinking about getting a seagull outboard for my small dinghy and to "learn" the art of outboard maintenance. I think I am right in saying they are 2 stroke so i probably wont be able to actually use it for much longer- is this right?

Is this a good plan or should this particular brand be consined to the nearest dark black hole?
 
Alistair,
Seagulls were a marvelous engine in the 1950s. today they have thier place amongst those of us old and dumb enough to remember them with affection. Like Land Rovers they were reliable only because of the amount of maintenance work required to keep them going. I love them dearly, but use a Tohatsu as my main engine.
As for the 2 stroke, future of . . . . who knows, not I.

Simes
 
Two-strokes will be around for a long time yet.
As Willson says, there is no problem with using them, just buying new as imports have been stopped (although a retailer told me of stockpiles of new 2-strokes imported before the ban).
Looked after a Seagull will have years of useful life, even if some of the parts, such as block castings, are unavailable. Take a look at http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/
 
I have a Seagull dating from 1965 - 44years old and still going strong. They do take some getting used to as they mostly have no clutch so as soon as you start it you have to be ready to go! Also the exposed rotating parts are a potential hazard. But I love it dearly.
 
Thanks for the resposnes, sounds as if it might be something worth doing, are the motors makeup preety much the same as "modern" alternatives.

i.e would I be able to learn the assembly of a standard outboard from a seagull
 
I've got two Seagulls. A 40 plus that I used now and then on my Mirror dinghy and a Featherweight that I use on my tender.

Noisy, oily, a bit on the heavy side and awkward to handle.

BUT they survive with minimal maintenace and will go on for ever.

2 strokes as such not banned. The small ones with carbs and premixed fuel just dont comply with modern environmental restrictions. Existing ones not affected though.

Active forum via the SOS website too.

There was a brand new 40 Featherweight on ebay recently, still in the original packaging. Did not sell so still about presumably.
 
I have thrown a few Seagulls on the local skip over the years. They can go on for ever, equally they can be incredibly tempremental, are noisy, and leave a slick of oil everywhere.

I replaced with a 20 year old Mariner 2hp, a lovely engine, much better in most ways.

Take your choice, but remember technology has moved on somewhat from 1950.
 
I've a Seagull40+ and a 2.5 Tohatsu. Nothing to choose, both start, both have no gears. Except I put new main bearings in the Tohatsu and haven't laid a finger on the Seagull, except to polish it.
Plus, you'll pick up a good one for £60-£80, no problem.
 
Early Seagulls came with a 10:1 fuel/oil mix (contrast that with the modern 100:1), came complete with a piece of knotted cord you wound around the flywheel head and pulled to start it (hopefully). Occasionally you might find one with a recoil starter. Almost universally now the coils etc which cost around £60 upwards to replace) have had 30 or 40 years to get corroded, damp, etc and are far from their best. This makes for poor starting and given the knotted cord scenario that can be frustrating.

I should look for something more user friendly, a Yamaha, Mariner, Tohatsu, or similar, 2.5 to 4hp, short shaft to suit a dinghy, preferably with a neutral/forward gear. They have all the features of a larger engine so a maintainence learning curve will also suit larger engines to a greater or lesser degree.

I'm not against Seagulls, I have two, a featherweight that takes an electric drill/socket to spin it up enough to start (try that afloat), the alternative being buy new coils, and a 102plus longshaft so far defying all efforts to start. I also have a Mariner 3.3 with gear, lovely engine, first time starter every season, a Yamaha 20hp for the big tender, a brute to pull start but the tender goes like doo-da off a shovel, and a Tomos with no gears, 3.5hp, again a first time starter and reserved to pair with the big Yammie when out at sea. Apart from the Mariner which I bougfht new 8 years ago, the Yammie was an E-bay restoration project at £165 plus paint and about £45 bits and new decals, the Tomos was a gift with a broken tank - I had one made and resprayed that engine as well and fitted new decals, looks like brand new now. The Seagulls were also non-running gifts which frankly are not worth spending money on. You can learn on a cheapie from E-bay, tart it up and have a serviceable engine, but not a Seagull these days!
 
Apparently it is not the 2 stroke itself that is outlawed but the emmisions, if some one comes up with a 2 stroke that meets the emmisions requirement then they can be sold.
 
I couldnt put a modern engine on my old wooden clinker dinghy, just wouldnt be right. Has to be a seagull.
I do however have a 30hp Yamahahahaha on my RIB, leccy start, tilt etc.
and a spare 2.3hp Honda 4 stroke, just in case the Seagull has a bad day!
 
When they were made 50 years ago, they were the best. They are still 50 year old outboards with technology to match. We thought Stuart Turner was the best inboard for a yacht in those days too.

We also thought BSA, Norton, Triumph etc made the best motorbikes. (They did too!)

But technology has advanced so that all these machines now have considerable nostalgic value, but are rarely able to compete with recent offerings from the Far East.

Seagulls by modern standards are noisy, messy, heavy, gutless, tempramental (yes I know there are some that are 100% reliable. There are some Stuarts like that too) and ecologically disasterous because of the oil slick they leave - not only in the sea but in the boot of your car, the boat locker and the dinghy. Interesting - yes. Viable - no not really.

As a learning experience for modern engines. No. They have too many idiosyncrasies. Nor do they have design features of modern engines such as reed valve induction, solid state ignition, and so on.

As a learning experience? Yes definitely. You will quickly learn that engine technology has advanced about a million miles since the last Seagull spluttered its way out of the factory. You will also learn why people either love them or hate them. Also why they are about 1/3rd the price of a good second hand engine. And why they tend to end up on skips. You will quite likely also find out how Doctors treat Tennis Elbow, which is a form of RSI!

My 'bigger hammer' would most defintiely apply to Seagull technology!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
a featherweight that takes an electric drill/socket to spin it up enough to start

[/ QUOTE ] I can start my Featherweight just by spinning it by hand without the rope.! Not easy as the compression is pretty good but if it goes round for a second revolution it keeps running. Not tried the 40+. No reason why it should not do the same.
Both mine have the sealed Wipac ignition systems (post 1967) maybe the old Villiers sytem is more vulnerable to damp and coil failure. Condensers a bit suspect too perhaps.

Only the very latest were fitted with recoil starters by Seagull. I believe they refused to have anything to do with early 3rd party add on ones as they felt the open cage structure could be dangerous.

Seagulls post 1967 can be converted to 25 :1 fuel mix. From around 1978 they came ready to run on 25:1. Makes them a lot less messy to handle.
 
These are pretty ancient, one (the 100/102 long shaft) has a brass tube, and both have the Villiers original ignition. I've got enough other engines not to want to waste my cash on these two.
 
Heres another vote for the Seagull.

It not only works as an outboard which keeps you real in terms of mechanical experience. But it will also serve as a makeshift anchor.

They are also very effective at repelling boarders. Few will show much enthusiasm for piracy after a good clump with a Seagull.

P
 
I remember them with both affection and frustration !

Always amazed that the spinning unprotected rotor has not been classed as a health hazard. Has anyone ever got their chinstrap caught ?

Probably, someday, their will be a mass amnesty for Seagulls with a farewell ship full of them to China . I expect much flag waving and tears.
 
Bear in mind that most Seagulls have the point and condenser under the magneto/flywheel. Having said that it is the only outboard which I know which runs underwater! I had a racing keelboat with an outboard bracket on the side, which meant that if a ship went past it would dip the outboard in the oggin, and which would splutter but keep going.
Regarding the 2 stroke ban, how come there are new 2 stroke petrol generators of the like in Wickes, B&Q and even Lidl?
 
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