To race or not to race ? that is the question

[johnalison]

Top end racing is necessary to set an example and improve the breed, just as F1 serves as an example even though the rest of us pootle around and observe the speed limit. Those who engage in elite sports often appear to think that theirs is the only version, whereas the majority of sailors are the equivalent of club golfers. Although I have done slightly serious racing, I don’t think I had as much fun as in a three-day regatta in Germany. While reading through the rules, in German that I could almost understand, I found that there was one rule stating that any skipper making a protest would have to face the race committee while standing in a cold shower.

 

[Neeves]

The OP is discussing participating in races run by RORC.

If you don't know the rules and are protested in a RORC race - no quarter is given to those who are 'just out for a bit of fun and a beer'. RORC members take racing seriously and WILL protest you if you infringe, that's what protests are for (not for fun- but to impose rules, primarily for the safety of all). If you see an infringement you can be protested for not protesting. You look very stupid at the protest meeting if you are found to be wanting on the subject of rules. RORC protests are taken seriously.

We were serious contenders and I was protested once on the basis I was not a member of a Yacht Club, affiliated with whatever the body is in the UK. There was some truth in the protest that I was not a member of RHKYC nor of ABC (the 2 main clubs) - I had better used for the money. I WAS a member of RORC and the protest was thrown out as being frivolous and the protester fined, I think it was US$100 - some of the protest committee had been flown in for the event.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The OP is discussing participating in races run by RORC.

If you don't know the rules and are protested in a RORC race - no quarter is given to those who are 'just out for a bit of fun and a beer'. RORC members take racing seriously and WILL protest you if you infringe, that's what protests are for (not for fun- but to impose rules, primarily for the safety of all). If you see an infringement you can be protested for not protesting. You look very stupid at the protest meeting if you are found to be wanting on the subject of rules. RORC protests are taken seriously.

We were serious contenders and I was protested once on the basis I was not a member of a Yacht Club, affiliated with whatever the body is in the UK. There was some truth in the protest that I was not a member of RHKYC nor of ABC (the 2 main clubs) - I had better used for the money. I WAS a member of RORC and the protest was thrown out as being frivolous and the protester fined, I think it was US$100 - some of the protest committee had been flown in for the event.

Jonathan

And if no newbies ever raced, there’d be no old hands, no winners and no racing. You seem to be basing your case on a daft protest. You could have just shown the bloke your credentials and stopped the whole farce while he was still licking his pencil. Why didn’t you?

 

[baart]

The OP is discussing participating in races run by RORC.

Not quite there yet Just PYRA i.e. a local organization for amateurs from Poole yacht clubs. Long way for us before we even consider any RORC races, especially in a 30ft Hunter

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not quite there yet Just PYRA i.e. a local organization for amateurs from Poole yacht clubs. Long way for us before we even consider any RORC races, especially in a 30ft Hunter

It’ll be great. Neeves seems to think you’ve entered the Americas Cup. There will almost certainly be one or 2 under the same delusion, you’ll soon work out who they are Buy the rule book and have a read about starts and mark rounding, they are the stress points. But you don’t need to be a legal eagle.

 

[Stemar]

Drift alert

I found that there was one rule stating that any skipper making a protest would have to face the race committee while standing in a cold shower.

A rule that could - and should - be extended to many other areas. Suggestions?

Here's a starter: speeches over 5 minutes in committee meetings

 

[baart]

It’ll be great.

Knowing our luck it will be either too windy to go or no wind at all

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Knowing our luck it will be either too windy to go or no wind at all

Any race longer than a few hours stands the chance of passing through the whole gamut of conditions. Most likely, in the warm half of the year, the conditions where you would start your engine if cruising.

 

[michael_w]

You'll get just as many clowns in a RORC race as the Snodbury gravel pit sailing and social club. The corporate heroes are the ones to watch out for.

 

[fredrussell]

The OP is discussing participating in races run by RORC.

If you don't know the rules and are protested in a RORC race…

The OP never even mentioned the RORC did he? I can’t help thinking you will put people off getting involved in yacht racing with talk of protests, fines and so on.

 

[doug748]

The OP never even mentioned the RORC did he? I can’t help thinking you will put people off getting involved in yacht racing with talk of protests, fines and so on.

Exactly. I'm afraid I mentioned it in post 20, but only in the context of being good news and nothing to bother about.

barrt's boat will easily exceed the requirements and probably already does.

.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Out of interest- Which national sporting federation is that?

Our national sporting federation is South Africa Sailing . this used to be the SA yacht Racing Association and there was a SA Cruising Association the catered for the cruising guys like me.

It is now dominated by the SAYRA and CASA has been left being. There was no requirement to pay any money to CASA but now there is a requirement to pay SAS money

SAS is affricated to World Sailing and World Sailing have a requirement to be a member of the World sailing affiliate to sail in regional national or international events using the World sailing rules of racing

I have not interest in racing so I don't see why I must be associated. In fact in RSA constitution (bill of rights) gives all citizens freedom of association and by case law freedom of disassociation.

Social members( those who don't sail of don't even own a boat) also have to pay a fee to the national federation.

 

[rogerthebodger]

You are at liberty, if you don’t like the rules of your club, to leave and set up your own club that works to your own rules.
Otherwise, if joining a club need to adhere to the rules the majority of members choose. And of course you should join the committee and help run the club, then you could propose refinements to the club rules.

That is OK as long as the rules of the club comply with the laws of the country they are located in.

If any of the rules contravene any law of the country and any legal rights of the citizens that rule and maybe all the rules become unenforceable. The committee could also be charged with not acting in good faith and /or bring the club into disrepute.

 

[B27]

That is OK as long as the rules of the club comply with the laws of the country they are located in.

If any of the rules contravene any law of the country and any legal rights of the citizens that rule and maybe all the rules become unenforceable. The committee could also be charged with not acting in good faith and /or bring the club into disrepute.

You chose to join a club affiliated to the yacht racing organisation.
Either enjoy for what it is, or leave.

If you don't want to affiliate to the yacht racing organisation, you are presumably free to start your own club.

In the UK we have quite few clubs which do no racing at all, but affiliate to the RYA because they are involved with training among other reasons.
We also have unaffiliated clubs, boat owners associations, mooring holders groups, etc.

Many clubs in the UK benefit from the fact that people last century started clubs to organise racing.
That is where the investment in buildings and facilities largely came from.

 

[awol]

Not sure how RORC races became relevant but there are many cruising boats that would have to spend a bob or two to meet the Category requirements to take part. One can argue that those requirements are sensible, even essential, safety items emanating from a series of lessons learnt in previous events. For example, meeting Cat 4 requires (list lifted off a probably out of date website):
1 LIFEJACKETS Type 402 or equivalent (in service), with pea-less whistle,
reflective tape, for all crew, named (individually or ship name)
2 A lifejacket with at least 50 newtons of buoyancy
3 LIFEBOUY At least one, with drogue, pea-less whistle, self-igniting light, named
4 SAFETY HARNESSES Named, for 50% of the crew
5 LIFELINES
6 HEAVING LINE 16m x 6mm bright coloured floating line, floating weight on end
7 1x BILGE PUMP Manual, handle attached with lanyard
8 2x BUCKETS Of stout construction, 9 litres capacity, each to have lanyard
9 TOOLS And spare parts, adequate means to disconnect or sever standing
rigging from the hull. Tools shall include: Hacksaw with 12 blades, hammer and
drift, bolt cutters
10 HEAVY WEATHER JIB And sail repair kit
11 TOILET Or fitted bucket
12 TURN OFF GAS Sign at bottles
13 2x FIRE EXTINGUISHERS With total weight at least 4 kg, serviced and tested
14 WATER Sufficient water for all the crew stored in secure tank or suitable
containers
15 KNIFE Accessible in cockpit X X
16 1 x ANCHOR, 40m rope & chain the minimum of a boat length, ready to deploy,
but securely fastened
17 GRAB BAG See regs and recommendation below
18 FIRST AID KIT See regs for contents (very important)
19 Handheld waterproof VHF
20 VHF or Mobile Phone protected from water ingress
21 FLARES 2x red hand flares, 1x orange smoke day flare**
22 1x white hand flare or spotlight minimum 500,000 candlepower **
23 2x FLASHLIGHTS 1x floating, spare bulbs and batteries
24 COMPASS Plus deviation card
25 TIDE TABLES Local
26 CHARTS For the area and plotting equipment
27 DEPTH SOUNDER
28 NAV LIGHTS Plus spare bulbs and fuses for same
29 FOGHORN
....... Cat 4 is inshore daylight racing! The full up-to-date details are on the World Sailing website.
Then there is the ban on plastic covered lifelines, £3,000,000 third party cover, and on it goes.

 

[rogerthebodger]

You chose to join a club affiliated to the yacht racing organisation.
Either enjoy for what it is, or leave.

If you don't want to affiliate to the yacht racing organisation, you are presumably free to start your own club.

In the UK we have quite few clubs which do no racing at all, but affiliate to the RYA because they are involved with training among other reasons.
We also have unaffiliated clubs, boat owners associations, mooring holders groups, etc.

Many clubs in the UK benefit from the fact that people last century started clubs to organise racing.
That is where the investment in buildings and facilities largely came from.

So is it the club who affiliates or is it the club compelling the members to affiliate.

Are clubs exempt from complying with the laws of country that are resident in.

Are clubs exempt from charging VAT on any purchases by members

I don't think so

Here most are affiliated so you have very little choice

 

[dunedin]

So is it the club who affiliates or is it the club compelling the members to affiliate.

Are clubs exempt from complying with the laws of country that are resident in.

Are clubs exempt from charging VAT on any purchases by members

I don't think so

Here most are affiliated so you have very little choice

Here we go again, back on your pet topic.

As you feel so strongly, why don’t you take a test case through the courts of your adopted country?
We wish you well.
Although resigning from the club or accepting a small element of your membership fee goes to the national sailing authority might be cheaper and less stressful.

Meanwhile back to the OP’s topic ……….

 

[rogerthebodger]

Here we go again, back on your pet topic.

As you feel so strongly, why don’t you take a test case through the courts of your adopted country?
We wish you well.
Although resigning from the club or accepting a small element of your membership fee goes to the national sailing authority might be cheaper and less stressful.

Meanwhile back to the OP’s topic ……….

The end of december last year I laid a complaint with our National consumer protection commission to do exactly that.

That is the first stage of a court process.

as not only it the requirements against the Constitution and Bill of rights but also in contravention of our consumer protection Act which is administered by the National consumer protection commission.

Unlike you in the UK we are required to have a safety inspection of out boat yearly by law . The safety authority claim this is a service so chargeable. I contend this is a stationary requirement in the same way as I must have a valid driving licence to drive on the public roads.

It all about money as we sailors are seen as a cash cow just like the car drivers and boat owners taxing the fuel we use

Just wait until you get regulations concerning boat safety which I have no issue about as its my life and my family I make sure my boat is a safe as it can be and that I can fix anything onboard that could compromise safety

Unlike a lot on the forum

 

[johnalison]

In spite of my anecdote, protests are of course an important part of yacht racing, even if only in the background as the ultimate sanction. You don’t have to go as far as Olympic Laser racing, where the threat of protest is regarded as a legitimate weapon, and in club racing many conflicts are avoided by a mixture of prudence and the occasional call for water. It does help to read the rules though, and also the course instructions. We once had a large fleet of mostly < 30-footers with the exception of an experienced racer with a 3/4 tonner that was involved in IOR races. Needless to say, he shot ahead out of sight, but we had the delightful experience of seeing him go the wrong side of a mark on his return leg and joined others in protesting him out.

 

[Daydream believer]

Needless to say, he shot ahead out of sight, but we had the delightful experience of seeing him go the wrong side of a mark on his return leg and joined others in protesting him out.

Protest?
Normally one just needs to point out to the miscreant, such a simple, but obvious, mistake & they retire gracefully.
Such events very rarely get to a protest committee. Was that not the case?