To Pan or not to Pan?

[CaptainBob]

Two scenarios for you:

What do you do if you're at sea, in good weather, with no particular other issue, but you can't start your engine? I've got sails, but wouldn't feel confident enough to use them alone to make it back to my berth... seems a bit OTT to call out a Pan Pan when you just want a bit of a tow. Or is the exact scenario in which you'd call out a Pan Pan?

Same question, but you're part way up a river... does the situation differ if you're not at sea? If so what do you do if you're stuck up a river without a paddle (or an engine)?

 

[stevebirch2002]

I would expect to get back to my berth under sail. I try and practice when the weather is fine and favourable winds. If you cant do it with the elements in your favour then how can you expect to do it when things are not quite perfect.

I would expect most to try and sail back under their own steam (sail power)..

Steve B

 

[Gunfleet]

If there's not enough room to manouevre under sail most harbourmasters would rather berth you than have you bumping other boats. Or you can inflate the dinghy and manouevre the last few yards with that. Either way it's not really pan pan in a sailing boat except if there is some urgency involved. You should really be able to solve the problem for yourself, even if it comes down to anchoring and asking for a tow.

 

[bobgoode]

Happened to me once, Bigbury bay, wind died, tide turned and hydraulics leaked into bilges. Went to top up the fluid but had nowhere near enough. Made a call to"any vessel in vicinity"

Nice yachtie turned back to give me a tow. Later a Swedish yacht altered course to close and check that things were ok.

No need for pan pan as I could have waited for the tide to turn and the wind to pick up but SWIMBO would have killed me !

 

[carlton]

[ QUOTE ]
Made a call to"any vessel in vicinity"

[/ QUOTE ]

On Ch16 I assume, or did you use the Marina channel ?

(Seems like a good idea - just checking should I ever need to do the same !).

 

[Anonymous]

Normally you'd carry on under sail as far as you can unless you are starting to get worried then if possible radio the marina, harbour master, fellow yachtie for a tow to get back in when you are a couple of miles off. But if you are not very confident you could tell the CG that you have lost your engine and would like them to be aware of your status. No need for a pan unless the CG escalate it, which they can.

There is no point in declaring an emergency all the while there isn't one unless you think that they need to be preparing themselves - get the helicopter warmed up /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think you're right not to try to get into a berth under sail. Suppose you smash up other peoples' boats - and for what? All harbours have a launch so in the worst case, luff up, drop the hook and tell them to take you to your berth - unless the berth is in a fast running tidal stream in which case I'd wait outside. Nobody is going to thank you for breaking boats.

Up a river, drop the anchor then sort yourself out. Don't try to be too clever - only do whatever is without doubt well within your competence. Not many people have the skills to bring a yacht into a berth in all conditions under sail and certainly not with weekend crew (family).

 

[jb2006]

I don't see either of those as necessarily a pan pan. In good conditions you can probably pick up a buoy somewhere and call an engineer out or drop the hook if you can't sail to your berth. A pan pan call isnt there to save us money!

I certainly wouldnt sail all the way up the Hamble if my engine wasnt working - I'll do it for fun with the engine working for the final manoeuvres. (Neither would I do it in the "rush hour" and expect every boat under power to give way to me like some idiots).

 

[damo]

If there is no safety issue then I wouldn't call pan pan, but ask for any vessel in the vicinity for assistance. If I could anchor safely then I would do so, then have another think (That is often what the CG ask when responding to a call).

2 years ago I had gearbox trouble near the Bishop lighthouse en route from Scillies to Cork, so I sailed back via a couple of anchorages, and another on a bank when the wind died and I was drifting into a ship channel.
I dropped the hook just outside the marina lock and asked a fisher to give me a tow on his way back in - he wasn't very helpful about it, so I called a mate to come out in a dory and get me back to the berth. If it had been at night, or with no other traffic around, I would have sailed into the lock.

The only moment I came close to considering a pan pan was going downwind in a light breeze and being unable to hold a safe course away from shipping. So I turned the other way and managed to crab across close-hauled to an anchorage.

But as the lifeboat men reckon - if someone thinks that they need assistance, then they need assistance.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

I think first you have to get out of the mindset of having to go back to your home mooring in any kind of breakdown situation.

People will seemingly go nuts working out cunning plans to get up the narrow river to their mooring etc. I could never dream of sailing onto my mooring, physically not possible, no one in the harbour (river) would thank me for trying either.

I would do one of two things. First, sail to my home port as far as I can and have done before running out of sea room, anchor and side tow onto my mooring with dinghy, or take dinghy alone for spares or scav a tow if the current is against me.

Or sail across the bay to more open moorings and pick up an empty mooring under sail, much easier if you can approach from 360°.

I remember reading the mobo thread a while back where people were arguing haw big an aux outboard they needed, it got to around 15hp to push the current up their local estuary etc. This all misses the point.

There is nothing stopping you carrying a scull and finding a safe anchorage while you consider your next move of course.

Sorry to butt in with a lecture ..

 

[damo]

"There is nothing stopping you carrying a scull "

I made a sweep with a spin pole and kayak paddle, but I couldn't make it work /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Though I did use the pole to push off rocks when trying to get off an anchorage with no wind close inshore.

We also tend to forget that it wasn't that long ago that yachts didn't have engines

 

[Marmalade]

We lost our engine on the way back from Holland a couple of years ago - we sailed until we reached the Shipwash when the wind died - 2am, surrounded by big stuff and no means of propulsion - we put out a pan pan and the RNLI towed us in.

Simon

 

[damo]

That's what I was close to doing, except I got into shallow water OK. The CG would much rather go and fetch someone with a tow than deal with a major incident (obviously /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

Though I am wary of getting a gung-ho crew coming to get me whether I want them to or not, especially as I know of a yacht that was wrecked by an over-enthusiastic lifeboat last year, when the skipper had neither wanted or requested assistance.

 

[wooslehunter]

There's an issue here that perhaps meens that the boat shouldn't be out anyway: not confident in handling the sails single handed in good weather.

However, Pan Pan is next down to a Mayday. I'd use Pan Pan where there's a threat to life or vessel but it's not immediate. If I were in the first situation, I'd try a call to coastie or all stations on CH16 (this is what it's for). If I wasn't in a shipping lane or restricted by depth, I'd drop the hook. Try a few times more and only then try a Pan Pan.

In the second case, a Pan Pan or even a Mayday would perhaps be in order. i.e. if the river is fast flowing & the current could cause a collision bad enough to cause significant damage or even sink something then the threat to life or vessel is immediate. You can always downgrade a Mayday once made. Of course dropping a hook should take about the same time as making a call. I'd opt for the hook first and then use the radio if it wasn't holding. Once anchored, a call to coastie, harbour master or a "Securite" is appropriate anyway as anchoring in a river channel causes a hazard.

Of course no-one here would be in the position in the first palce. We'd all be able to handle at least a bit of foresail single handed to get us safe.

 

[graham]

I hope none of the Gung ho "you should always be able to sail onto your berth type "dont moor next to me.I have suffered the damage from it before.

I fully agree that if its possible then sail as close as you can .As Dogwatch suggested you can use your inflatable and outboard as a tug.If in any doubt how about a phone call or routine VHFcall to the marina staff other boats or if noone about then the CG.

There may be a lifeboat out on exercise who would love to come and assist.

The other side of the coin is to get to know your engine ,have spare belts etc and tools.keep the fuel and filters clean and usually they keep going.

 

[AliM]

Probably not a pan pan, unless there are other dangers.

First question - are you endangering yourself or anyone else by sailing slowly back to the vicinity of your marina/mooring. For example, are you in on near a shipping lane or area used by commercial or fast vessels (like the poster in Shipwash). Is there an awkward lee shore, nasty reefs etc that you are not confident of clearing. There may be a case for a pan pan if the dangers are serious, here.

If yes, contact the CG on their working channel and ask their advice.

If no, sail back to close to your mooring/marina and radio the marina, asking their advice, or a friend, or just any passing boat on Ch 16.

We had a prop problem in the Waddensea. We didn't even consider pan pan. We sailed to the lock into the nearest port and accepted a tow from a friendly dutch yacht. I radioed the lock to tell them the problem as we were approaching, and the lock-keeper appeared after we'd sorted out the tow to make sure we were ok.

That's my slant on the problem, anyway - I'd only pan pan in a much more serious situation than simply losing my engine - after all we can sail.

 

[fisherman]

Surely pan pan is a means of getting everyone else to keep off the air while you talk to the CG; is your situation that urgent? Any other situation suggests a conversation with the CG at leisure. I called a panpan when I picked up a MOB because I wanted to get the ambulance on the quay pretty quickly, didn't want to possibly wait my turn on 67.

 

[fireball]

Got enough room around our mooring to sail on to it in most conditions - we do sail on to it quite often just as a technical exercise . I agree with most of those previously posted - you should be able to sail back (given the right weather conditions) to a safe haven (as DW said - doesn't have to be your home port!) - get a tow as and when it becomes dangerous to you/your vessel or others.
I have lost the engine b4 - in the harbour entrance on an ebb tide ... two quick calls - one to the owner (F-i-L) and one to my Dad (as I might have to call on him to get the club launch out) - only to let them know what was going on and that I'd be later than intended.
I would say that you'd only need to inform CG if you could pose significant danger to other vessels .. and only a pan-pan if it is an urgent threat (ie you're in a shipping channel and cannot make reasonable progress in the available wind).

Like the idea of an "all vessels" for a tow - I think more ppl should do this - the number of times the CG put out a call on behalf of a broken down vessel is significant!

 

[Thistle]

Pan Pan is an <u>urgency</u> call. Is there anything in the situations you describe which requires urgent action? In my opinion, no urgent action by others is required in either scenario. They do, of course, need a bit of clear thinking and decisive action from the sailor and may well be a bit nerve-wracking, especially for a beginner.

There may be other factors not mentioned in your post which might change the situation.

 

[whipper_snapper]

I would agree with DogWatch, the problem is in the question: "but wouldn't feel confident enough to use them alone to make it back to my berth.". The CG/RNLI is there to keep you alive not to deliver you back to your car! You should under most circumstences be able to sail to a safe haven, from which you can arrange assisatnce if necessary. Having recently sailed 1,000 miles anchor to mooring without an engine, I would not be very sympathetic to declaring an emergency because of engine failure under most conditions. There are obviously exceptions, but good seamanship involves being aware of hazards and having contingency plans for likely problems such as engine failure. For instance, if you motor across a bar or through a narrow channel with your sail covers on and your anchor lashed down, you are courting disaster, but I have seen it done 100s of times. I even saw a yacht motor through the swellies like that!

 

[gjgm]

seems a bit of uncertainty about "back to the berth". I ll assume you can get back to the marina ok, otherwise there is a real worry,surely. At that point, the marina staff can tow you in.