To d3 or not to d3, that is the question!

Those interested in this subject might want to read this thread from 2015 when the forum had members who knew their subject - and the engines were current (or just about to go out)
forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/is-t-the-statment-that-the-volvo-penta-d3-diesel-190-hp-a-disposable-engine-fair.436653/
See my post #30 , beat you to it .Notice LS debunks your “ Volvo taxi theory “ .Boats have no gears unlike cars , effectively in top and going up hill all day when in the operational rev range .

I wasn’t gonna poke a stick further at you , but now you have double posted it………..

Anyhow the OPs made his mind up it sounds . Best of British to him .
 
See my post #30 , beat you to it .Notice LS debunks your “ Volvo taxi theory “ .Boats have no gears unlike cars , effectively in top and going up hill all day when in the operational rev range .

I wasn’t gonna poke a stick further at you , but now you have double posted it………..

Anyhow the OPs made his mind up it sounds .

OP has not made mind up, but I'm not hearing why these should be totally avoided with inherent flaws other than the turbo design (which I'm happy to maintain and likely not soot up with my use).

The smaller boats don't have many engine options, vast majority are volvo d3 or kad if older. If there was 2 of these boats with a d3 and kad then I'd likely get the kad..... But that isn't an option. Take it or leave it is the option on this one.

I'm going to call local volvo dealers tomorrow that have been recommended who know their onions.
 
You are correct it is either the volvo or occasionally the 1.7 mercruiser GM diesel, neither is amazingly appealing. I had previously ruled out diesel inboard due to the horror stories you hear but I've never paid much attention to them as I've been with outboards for 15 years plus now. The boat I was after (aquador 21wa) for a few years I absolutely hated when I went to Ireland a few weeks ago to see one for sale. This diesel came up and is basically like new so I figured maybe time for a change away from trailer my boats to just keep them in the water...... Decisions.
Trailer nearly zero corrosion as long as you rinse it off / out
how much trouble have you had with the 15 yrs of outboards ?
 
You are correct it is either the volvo or occasionally the 1.7 mercruiser GM diesel, neither is amazingly appealing. I had previously ruled out diesel inboard due to the horror stories you hear but I've never paid much attention to them as I've been with outboards for 15 years plus now. The boat I was after (aquador 21wa) for a few years I absolutely hated when I went to Ireland a few weeks ago to see one for sale. This diesel came up and is basically like new so I figured maybe time for a change away from trailer my boats to just keep them in the water...... Decisions.
I had a pair of the Isuzu 1.7’s in my Sunline. Great little engines. I looked after them, and they looked after me.
 
See my post #30 , beat you to it .Notice LS debunks your “ Volvo taxi theory “ .Boats have no gears unlike cars , effectively in top and going up hill all day when in the operational rev range .

I wasn’t gonna poke a stick further at you , but now you have double posted it………..

Anyhow the OPs made his mind up it sounds . Best of British to him .
Mybe you should read the whole thread and then you might understand that your view is highly selective. LS makes the point very strongly that the engine is perfectly capable of achieving what it set out to do - that is provide high output diesel power for small sports boats over their expected life. The fact that they cannot be rebored is completely irrelevant - that is true of all such engines not just Volvo (see his bit about Yanmar). That method of build is universal in automotive based engines as it is the only way that is possible to meet the performance demanded by buyers AND the emissions requirements by regulators.

You will also find the main criticism of the engine (from those that know) is around the turbo design and the electronics NOT the basic engine. You also need to recognise that this was one of the first high speed lightweight common rail diesels providing power outputs far higher than any of the predecessor old style diesels and enabled builders to offer diesel engines with close to petrol performance.

You might also consider why builders choose Volvo. Who else in this sector provides a complete proven engine/drive package at a competitive price and a world wide service and support network. Nobody - which is why they are successful and dominate the market.

Perhaps it would be better if you saw things in their true context and not in one of your own making.
 
Trailer nearly zero corrosion as long as you rinse it off / out
how much trouble have you had with the 15 yrs of outboards ?

Outboards have only required maintenance last 4 I've had. I've had an inboard once (V8 228 merc with original drive) that was nothing but problems.
 
Returning to the beginning……is there something ( they are getting more popular theses days ) with outboards ?
I mean what do you want mostly to do with the boat ?
Dive , fish , over night , etc .

By way of example, in the med once weather bound in a mistral for 3 days on an island called Port Cros ( Google it folks ) , we were next to a big rib .Twin yam 350 s etc .They the bloke + woman slept in a pop up tent on the bow and used hotels .
Got chatting with the guy and he had had everything but reduced his boating to the rib .
They used hotels on shore and believe me there are a plenty in the Med with easy access some in nice bays , beach side etc etc with buoys .
I think the rib end of season was put in a hanger thus saving marina berth fees .
It had a toilet , sun pad , a little top , bimini etc .Told me he often went as far as Corsica etc ,

Got me thinking .
The hotel bit expense is as long as a piece of string , but they had the pop up tent as well .
The speed + comfort in a chop is a given , the ease of maintenance of the yams another given , the winter hanger another given ,
The capital outlay tiny say compared to a eq floating apartment + berth .
They were from Belgium. Any extra guest s with booking .com they all used hotels .

No potential volvo Penta woes they were a million miles away .Opted out .He has had those with outdrives like the rest of us in his boat accent upwards.

Something like this he had , there are plenty in the Med .
See the direction though this is Sunseekers despite its illustrious history with VP intro , or smallest modal .
For illustration .
Sunseeker | Hawk 38

No different mind set to picking a nice high end sporty car and touring Europe on a car trip ……staying in nice places .
You don’t need a camper van .
Hard in boaty world to cross that mindset we are all by PR teams guided upwards and bigger is best into floating apartments with 7 figure price tags .
Yet in the car world it’s the opposite a 2 door GT or coupe say a 911 or DB 11 or Ferrari Roma is better to tour than a boggo 4 door sedan .Even a MX5 or Boxster hood down through the alps .

Just step back and work out what you really want from a boat .
 
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Returning to the beginning……is there something ( they are getting more popular theses days ) with outboards ?
I mean what do you want mostly to do with the boat ?
Dive , fish , over night , etc .

By way of example, in the med once weather bound in a mistral for 3 days on an island called Port Cros ( Google it folks ) , we were next to a big rib .Twin yam 350 s etc .They the bloke + woman slept in a pop up tent on the bow and used hotels .
Got chatting with the guy and he had had everything but reduced his boating to the rib .
They used hotels on shore and believe me there are a plenty in the Med with easy access some in nice bays , beach side etc etc with buoys .
I think the rib end of season was put in a hanger thus saving marina berth fees .
It had a toilet , sun pad , a little top , bimini etc .Told me he often went as far as Corsica etc ,

Got me thinking .
The hotel bit expense is as long as a piece of string , but they had the pop up tent as well .
The speed + comfort in a chop is a given , the ease of maintenance of the yams another given , the winter hanger another given ,
The capital outlay tiny say compared to a eq floating apartment + berth .
They were from Belgium. Any extra guest s with booking .com they all used hotels .

No potential volvo Penta woes they were a million miles away .Opted out .He has had those with outdrives like the rest of us in his boat accent upwards.

Something like this he had , there are plenty in the Med .
See the direction though this is Sunseekers despite its illustrious history with VP intro , or smallest modal .
For illustration .
Sunseeker | Hawk 38

No different mind set to picking a nice high end sporty car and touring Europe on a car trip ……staying in nice places .
You don’t need a camper van .
Hard in boaty world to cross that mindset we are all by PR teams guided upwards and bigger is best into floating apartments with 7 figure price tags .
Yet in the car world it’s the opposite a 2 door GT or coupe say a 911 or DB 11 or Ferrari Roma is better to tour than a boggo 4 door sedan .Even a MX5 or Boxster hood down through the alps .

Just step back and work out what you really want from a boat .

Let's just say putting a boat in marina will cost me less than what i currently do.

I want to start doing overnight trips without thinking about hotels or where to get ashore. Also like idea of no floatation suits in winter to go out for the day.

Now the rib has pros, the ride is exceptional compared to any hardboat I'm likely to get. It is obviously fast to get out way of weather or indeed to better waters in safer manner. I also do not have antifouling or corrosion largely speaking so those are great.

If the D3 is a world of pain then I'll simply keep the rib and move on.
 
Let's just say putting a boat in marina will cost me less than what i currently do.

I want to start doing overnight trips without thinking about hotels or where to get ashore. Also like idea of no floatation suits in winter to go out for the day.

Now the rib has pros, the ride is exceptional compared to any hardboat I'm likely to get. It is obviously fast to get out way of weather or indeed to better waters in safer manner. I also do not have antifouling or corrosion largely speaking so those are great.

If the D3 is a world of pain then I'll simply keep the rib and move on.

What boat is it that you are looking at with the d3?
 
@ Tranona .Are you blind to Volvo Paul’s contribution ?

Google “Volvo Penta d3 problems “

Typically , but many others similar.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/439024-volvo-engines.html
No, I am not blind - but it is largely irrelevant to the question which was are the "disposable" - which seems to mean can they be rebuilt or not. The answer is yes they cannot be rebuilt - just like any other automotive engine of the last 20 years or so. Does it matter? No - read LS explanation for why they are made that way and his view that they are entirely acceptable because the type of boats they go into will never get anywhere near the kind of hours where they will be worn out - typically 5000. Boats of this type rarely do more than 100-150 hours a year.

This does not mean they make reliable boat engines as he explained with variable vane turbos, poor electronics and belt drive camshaft. However boat engines fail or are unreliable because of the way they are used and abused. Sit doing nothing 90% of the time, full of corrosive seawater. Then fired up and wacked up to full power for an hour or 2 then shut down while everybody has a swim. Same again going home then shut away in a damp corrosive environment for another couple of weeks.

The need to rebore/rebuild engines in the past was because by today's standards they were rubbish and simply wore out. Those of us who were brought up with old style engines know about expected life in road use of 50000 miles if you were lucky. Worse when engines were then boosted to double the power to go into boats such as the Sabres and early Volvos. You have no idea how much work Sabre had to do with the basic blocks to make them strong enough to stay stable, and waterways clear enough to provide adequate cooling. Add to this primitive fuel injection and turbocharging and you end up with fragile engines. So folks maintaining them got used to rebuilds.

Different world now. Automotive engines are now effectively sealed for life units and will outlast most cars and boats. Problem with boats is getting them to work properly in an alien environment.

So please be less selective in your reading - don't just quote those things that suit your prejudice. Get a handle on the context which means the answer (if there is one) is much more complex than the simple question.
 
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Kelvin engines if anyone actually remembers or has even heard of them were built on the principle that they could be repaired by the local handyman on the beach anywhere in the empire
you could even rebuild your injectors with a brass brush
what a legend and dinosaur
 
That boat is available with a d4 engine - that might be a better bet. The d4/6/9 engines are completely different engines to the d3, despite sharing the d series prefix.

The d4/6/9 are designed as marine engines from the ground up, whereas the d3 was a modified car engine.

Theres a d4 engined finnmaster 7600 here

2007 Finnmaster 7600 Sports Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
Likewise gear driven cams , and i suspect beefier oil pumps to cool it internally.
 
That boat is available with a d4 engine - that might be a better bet. The d4/6/9 engines are completely different engines to the d3, despite sharing the d series prefix.

The d4/6/9 are designed as marine engines from the ground up, whereas the d3 was a modified car engine.

Theres a d4 engined finnmaster 7600 here

2007 Finnmaster 7600 Sports Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

Can you pm me please? I cannot figure out how to do it on here!
 
Finnmaster 7600

I looked at one just before Christmas in Scotland. D3 had not been serviced or out in three years + with little use so I walked away as the broker would not budge on price. I had my suspicions that it was his own stock boat.

But a cracking boat and I would have gone for it but it would be based in London / Thames and the numbers simply did not stack up.
 
I bought my boat last year with a D3 160 fitted 10 years ago but only done 95hrs. A full service by an experienced engineer, a fuel tank flush out and all good cruising the Clyde and west coast.
 
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