To collide or not collide - that is the question

[theOrgan1st]

Who has the right of way?

2 yachts under sail. Wind is from 270 degrees. Boat A is on starboard "run" steering 095. Boat B is also on starboard "run" steering 100 and is on the port side of boat A. So they are converging. Neither boat appears to the skippers to have a speed advantage. Actually, boat B is travelling slightly faster (but only just) than boat A. Which yacht should give way in order to prevent an imminent collision? Neither yacht is racing or approaching a buoy.

 

[Daedelus]

No such thing as right of way in COl regs.

However, since both on same tack windward vessel is give way and although close thing I would suggest that boat A is to windward.

At end of day both have a duty to avoid collision.

Perhaps best thing to do would be for boat B to wait until quite close to boat A then throw half a shackle at his mainsail and then scream and point at boat A's masthead.

Boat A will then panic and B can sail past happy in the knowledge that A will be worrying about what has come loose for ages.

 

[michael_w]

Clevis pin is better for confusing the opposition.

 

[Tony Cross]

I would say that boat A is the give-way vessel because he (she?) is to windward of boat B (Rule 12 a(ii))

 

[l'escargot]

But is boat B the overtaking boat if it is going faster?

 

[Uricanejack]

But is boat B the overtaking boat if it is going faster?

+1 rule 13. Boat B is the give way vessel.

Niether has right of way. It doesn't exist.

 

[Tony Cross]

Boat B is not overtaking, he's on boat A's port side. "A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam"

 

[prv]

But is boat B the overtaking boat if it is going faster?

Is that a deliberate red herring?

Overtaking is when you're in the stern-light sector (and from then on until you are "past and clear") - it's not directly concerned with speed.

Pete

 

[lustyd]

with a 5 degree course difference how did they get in this situation if one boat wasn't at some point the overtaking vessel? The Colregs would prevent them getting in this situation in the first place so it's irrelevant.

 

[l'escargot]

Boat B is not overtaking, he's on boat A's port side. "A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam"

He might be now but all overtaking vessels will be on one side or other of the vessel they are overtaking at some point. With a 5 degree course difference, was was he within the 22.5 degrees abaft the beam of the other boat at some stage too?

 

[Tony Cross]

He might be now but all overtaking vessels will be on one side or other of the vessel they are overtaking at some point. With a 5 degree course difference, was was he within the 22.5 degrees abaft the beam of the other boat at some stage too?

Not necessarily. Perhaps they left at the same time and have been in those relative positions ever since? Unlikely I'll grant you but not impossible.

 

[lustyd]

Not necessarily. Perhaps they left at the same time and have been in those relative positions ever since? Unlikely I'll grant you but not impossible.

Nope, clearly says boat B is travelling faster.

 

[l'escargot]

Not necessarily. Perhaps they left at the same time and have been in those relative positions ever since? Unlikely I'll grant you but not impossible.

From the OP: "...Actually, boat B is travelling slightly faster (but only just) than boat A..." He could be overtaking albeit slowly.

 

[lustyd]

is it me or is there a very slow echo in here?

 

[l'escargot]

is it me or is there a very slow echo in here?

I think it's you...I'm just answering responses to my posts.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Collide and let the insurers sort it out.

 

[mainsail1]

Unless you can sort out who is the overtaking vessel, the windward boat should give way. Simples. The idea that under the col regs nobody has right of way is getting out of hand!

 

[viago]

The idea that under the col regs nobody has right of way is getting out of hand!

its a bit of a misnomer actually. the authors substitute the concept of "right of way" with "stand on vessel", which, as far as i can tell, is pretty much the same thing with the legal certainty removed.

 

[prv]

its a bit of a misnomer actually. the authors substitute the concept of "right of way" with "stand on vessel", which, as far as i can tell, is pretty much the same thing with the legal certainty removed.

It isn't. If you had a right of way, once you got it you could steer wherever you wanted and the other boat would have to accommodate you. This is what happens in racing, with boats pushing their opponents into unfavourable positions. Being the stand on vessel does not give you that right, though - it gives you an obligation, the obligation to stand on. Until the situation is resolved you are not allowed to deviate (unless it's at the last minute to avoid collision). Yes, in a way it's easier in that you don't have to alter your course (assuming you didn't want to) but to see it as "I am on top in this situation and they are subordinate" is to miss the point.

Ultimately the idea is to avoid the "corridor dance" where people jink from side to side as they approach, accidentally thwarting each others' attempts to get past. That happens because there are (usually) no rules for passing in a corridor, so no one knows what to expect. On the roads we solve it by putting the same obligation on everybody, to drive on the left. The situation at sea is more complicated, with vessels coming from all directions, so we've solved it by putting one obligation on one ship ("You, stay still!") and a corresponding obligation on the other ("You, go round him!"). The obligations are of equal force, and they work provided they're both followed.

Pete

 

[Cruiser2B]

Nope, clearly says boat B is travelling faster.

You don't understand relative motion, do you?