John.edwards
Well-Known Member
maybe one tacked onto their closing track and was never 22.5 abaft of the beam
To collide or not collide - that is the question
- Thread starter theOrgan1st
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maybe one tacked onto their closing track and was never 22.5 abaft of the beam
lustyd
Well-Known Member
So they tacked into a collision situation - Colregs forbids this.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Yes, do you? On a 5 degree course difference, with one boat going faster they would at some stage have either turned into the collision course (against Colregs) or been in the overtaking sector.
onesea
Well-Known Member
+1 Funny thing is one of the boats will decide hes got right of way and keep going, at the end of the day if you have seen them you are unlikely to put yourself in a collision...
Sadly there seem to be those that knowing this snip-it abuse it...
Or be VERY slowly been over taking and come over horizon, or come out of a fog patch or.... you can make up lots of scenarios..
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
You are assuming that boat B has always been going faster than boat A. They might have both been doing exactly the same speed from the time they set off and boat B has only now adjusted his sail trim to eek another half a knot. It's perfectly possible that at no time has boat B been overtaking and that neither boat has done anything against the Colregs (so far).
Victoria Sponge
Well-Known Member
I think col regs are just for men.
Iliade
Well-Known Member
The vessel which has the right of way is the one crewed by the least knowledgeable skipper/helmsman...
The stand on vessel is the biggest one...
The stand on vessel is the one where the singlehanded skipper is making tea or sleeping...
The give way vessel is the one least bothered about the informal 'race' which occurs whenever two yachts come within sight of each other...
The stand on vessel is the one least able to disengage/dodge the autopilot...
The give way vessel is the most expensive one...
The give way vessel is the plastic one...
&c.
The stand on vessel is the biggest one...
The stand on vessel is the one where the singlehanded skipper is making tea or sleeping...
The give way vessel is the one least bothered about the informal 'race' which occurs whenever two yachts come within sight of each other...
The stand on vessel is the one least able to disengage/dodge the autopilot...
The give way vessel is the most expensive one...
The give way vessel is the plastic one...
&c.
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
Issac Asimov invented the "Three Laws of Robotics" and then wrote a whole raft of stories picking up the inconsistencies and flaws in them. Debating the Colregs seems to me a bit like that!
John.edwards
Well-Known Member
the tack was 15 miles ago
oldharry
Well-Known Member
Yes but OP says that neither skipper is 'aware' of any speed difference, although boat B is 'actually' slightly faster.
This invalidates the whole scenario: either one boat is faster than t'other, or not. Both should be keeping better lookout, then they wouldnt have got in to this situation in the first place! At this point Colregs gives up, and says both boats have responsibility for collision avoidance.
If BOTH skippers are being b minded, then the answer is to sail parallel until one has cleared the other, accompanied by a 'suitable verbal exchange' as they do so....
That at least is the Solent solution.
This invalidates the whole scenario: either one boat is faster than t'other, or not. Both should be keeping better lookout, then they wouldnt have got in to this situation in the first place! At this point Colregs gives up, and says both boats have responsibility for collision avoidance.
If BOTH skippers are being b minded, then the answer is to sail parallel until one has cleared the other, accompanied by a 'suitable verbal exchange' as they do so....
That at least is the Solent solution.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I think col regs are just for men.
They seem to be great sport for people who like to talk about boats rather than going sailing.
Good for them.
Cruiser2B
Well-Known Member
Say there are two boats (A and B); open ocean out of sight of each other; both are at the exact same latitude; both steering North; both at exactly 5 kts. You agree that they will be travelling parallel to each other, yes?
Now if boat A comes over 5 degrees to steer 005º, and he maintains 5 kts, the northerly component of his advance is only 4.98 kts - he will fall behind B. In orderly to maintain the northerly advance of 5 kts, A would need to make 5.02 kts on his course - in this case he would slowly converge with B on a steady bearing on the beam. At no point would he ever have been in the stern sector, nor could colregs seen to be in effect when they were not in visual contact.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
If I was boat B then I would make a course change to avoid a collision when it is obvious a collision is likely, enough so that the boat in front doesn't worry. Then I could get the second gin out. On the other hand the 'no such thing as right of way in Colregs' brigade can carry on and ram the boat. Then I'll get the third gin out.
SimonFa
Well-Known Member
I don't care which boat I'm in, I change course because I don't want to be having this conversation with any of the following:
1. Board of Enquiry
2. My insurance company
3. SWMBO
4. My crew or their families of there's been a death
1. Board of Enquiry
2. My insurance company
3. SWMBO
4. My crew or their families of there's been a death
lw395
Well-Known Member
It is just a phrase that means different things in different circumstances, and the fact that it does not appear in the colregs seems to be the most widely known thing about colregs.
In racing, the RoW boat has often many more obligations than the stand on boat in colregs.
Outside my house is a road which is a 'right of way' that does not mean I can 'stand on' without regard to other traffic.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Yes but OP says that neither skipper is 'aware' of any speed difference, although boat B is 'actually' slightly faster.
This invalidates the whole scenario: either one boat is faster than t'other, or not. Both should be keeping better lookout, then they wouldnt have got in to this situation in the first place! At this point Colregs gives up, and says both boats have responsibility for collision avoidance.
If BOTH skippers are being b minded, then the answer is to sail parallel until one has cleared the other, accompanied by a 'suitable verbal exchange' as they do so....
But which should alter course to achieve parallel courses?
It's clearly a windward boat situation, unless the leeward boat did indeed come up from astern.
That is the thing with colregs, compared to RRS, they are written with boats approaching from over the horizon in mind, you cannot turn to acquire 'rights' as you do in RRS.
In practice, only boats with autopilots steer so exactly to the compass for long enough periods for this issue to arise.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Only at the equator old chap, everywhere else, the course 'North' diverges from the South Pole and converges on the North Pole..... Sorry, pedantry is essential in a colregs thread...
Other than that I agree.
Bearing in mind that in the real 'open ocean' the boat I was sailing changed course by more than 5 degrees on every wave...
Cruiser2B
Well-Known Member
lw395
Well-Known Member
Tony Cross
Well-Known Member
This is completely off-topic (but I think we've done this question to death anyway) but I read the following in the letters page of New Scientist a few years ago.
