To close, or not to close, the engine seacock

[millbeach]

MY boat is on a swing mooring on the Blackwater, she dries out twice a day and settles on the mud.
She settles flat bottom in over 3 ft of soft mud.
My engine seacock is pushed into the mud by the weight of my boat.
What i am thinking is that if i leave said seacock open, mud would pack up and pack into my seacock when tide goes out..
Also always close other cocks, only opening if and when req..

 

[V1701]

Could you chop a section from the board under the bunk to make access to the seacock in question easier? Worked for me, I close all mine when leaving for more than a day...

 

[Ubergeekian]

Could you chop a section from the board under the bunk to make access to the seacock in question easier? Worked for me, I close all mine when leaving for more than a day...

Does anyone make simple remotely operated seacocks? The engine cooling on on Jumblie is, like everything else in the machinery space, an utter pain to get to.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I too close all seacocks except cockpoit drains when off the boat. It seems pointless leaving them open as there must be a slight risk of a leak. It also 'exercises' them which is a good maintenance operation. When sailing I leave them all open except if its rough.

 

[NormanS]

I close all mine when the boat is unattended, but when I'm aboard they're all open. In OP's case I would be concerned that mud could be pushed up into the seacocks, so would shut them.

 

[Leighb]

All closed - except cockpit drains - when we leave the boat.

Galley and loo closed at sea except when in use, otherwise they can fill the boat on one tack or the other.

A friend at the club was until recently of the leave-em all open school. However he went aboard one day last year to find bilgewater up to the floorboards, no leaks, but seawater had syphoned in through the loo plumbing, this may have been incorrectly fitted by the builders as I don't think it should happen even with the seacock open, but it could not have done with it shut.

Some years ago some friends had a very lengthy battle with theior ionsureres when their yacht sank at its mooring in the winter. Water in one of the inlets had frozen, pushed the pipe off the seacock, or burst the hose, I can't recall eaxctly which, and the yacht sank.

Insurers tried to avoid payment entirely, but after lengthy dispute eventually settled but not for the full value.

Interestingly guess which seacock has seized last winter, yes a cockpit drain. They are almost impossible to get at and I have not tried to move them very often. Only time I used them for any purpose was when we had a launching party the first year. With so many friends on board we would have been paddling in the cockpit.

 

[mikemonty]

An interesting point.......I am very careful about my checks of seacocks etc., but am acutely aware that others aboard might not be. I do wonder whether fitting a flow sensor (with alarm) on the raw water inlet is a good idea?

Flow sensors all over the place = complexity and unreliability.
Better with limit switches on the seacock spindles and a status board on or near the switch panel with a red/green LED indicating each seacock closed/open.

 

[lydiamight]

I close mine--a lever operated valve under the berth in the aft cabin.
What I do is have the ignition key on a piece of string which loops under the closed lever. You need the key to start the engine and you can't get to it unless you open the lever valve on the stopcock--a good way of preventing the engine being started with the sea cock being closed.

 

[TamarMike]

On my old boat I always closed the engine cooling and exhaust seacocks (there were no others!) as the water strainer and pump, also the bulk of the engine was below the waterline (also used to open the drain to the water box so any water passing the exhaust valve wouldn't reach the engine).

With the yacht I only close the heads inlet and outlet cocks, both when leaving the boat and when sailing. I was surprised on Sunday when I realised I had failed to shut it yet despite having sailed leaning hard to starboard there were no unpleasant consequences

The raw water inlet runs straight up to the strainer above the waterline while the sink outlets are difficult to get to so don't bother shutting these and there is no valve on the exhaust.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

You might like to ask your Dad WHY he is so concerned about an air-lock? If it is because of past experience, then maybe the collective wisdom of the group (that it isn't a problem with modern engines) is worth presenting to him. If it is a theoretical concern, then again it might be worth pointing him to the wisdom rolleyes of the forum. But if it's a "That how things be" sort of thing, then I doubt he is open to persuasion!

When I was a brand new boat owner I used to turn off the sea-cocks every time I left the boat, and turned them on when I arrived. However, all are in inconvenient locations; all are new (I had them all replaced on the surveyor's advice on buying her) and I operate them from time to time as a check. Never any problem with the raw water inlet; but then again, I am not on a drying berth.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Does anyone make simple remotely operated seacocks?

Valve Actuator resources. It may be a bit OTT though.

I have a fuel valve which can not be accessed so I screwed a lever operated ball valve onto the gate valve. This lever has a forked clevis pin attached to it and a stiff rod traversing about 3 feet and through a bulkhead. A simple pull and push now opens and closes the fuel valve.

I have a plan to make something a bit beefier for the cockpit drain seacock in the engine room. If I had an engine room fire I could also end up with a leak should the hose burn or melt through. That one is a Blakes type valve.

I worked on a boat with valves operated by wire routed through pulleys, again lever type. Some ideas which could help with your access problem.

 

[prv]

Thanks for all the responses. I might try having the discussion again another time.

Mud being forced into the seacock is an interesting point, but in KS's case the outlet stays well out of the mud. For whatever reason she only sinks in to propeller level, and the seacock is above that.

The toilet did previously seem at risk of siphoning on the intake side, but I've fitted a siphon break on a nice high loop and you can see the water drop down both sides of the transparent hose the moment you stop pumping. I'm not worried about siphoning there any more. The galley sink has a pump on the drain and hence a pair of non-return valves, plus the top of it is comfortably above the waterline when moored.

I did originally have a more accessible stop valve next to the strainer, since with the boat ashore I didn't know whether it would be possible to open the top for clearing without it overflowing. However, that strainer (a cheap and nasty thing) leaked air mightily and had to be changed, and the stop valve couldn't be put straight back on the new type.

I can't see a plausible way of remotely operating the seacock itself, unfortunately.

I have considered a flow switch, to give early warning of a closed seacock or blockage before the overheat alarm, but it's all extra complexity.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[LORDNELSON]

Sea cocks

I am of the "never close the seacocks" school - I would simply not remember to open them again, leading to disaster & recriminations.

My first boat only had cocks on the cockpit drains - there were no other holes in the hull (engine was o/b) and she had the driest, dustiest bilges in the world. Current boat has cocks for engine, sink, seawater tap, toilet & cockpit drains plus a hole in the stern for the prop shaft. She always carries a gallon or two of bilge water, but most comes over the side I reckon, with a slow drip from the prop unless just greased. She dries on every tide and has done for over 20 years in my ownership and never had a cooling water problem.

Leave 'em open, the risk of failure is low, even if the consequence is fairly severe. Leave 'em shut & the risk of forgetting to open them is quite high - especially if you are on your own - and the consequences are probably as expensive as sinking. That's my risk assessment anyway.

Yes, I am getting more and more forgetful as time goes on but I seem to have fixed this by having a check list on the chart table which I go through before starting anything. I know - what happens if I forget to look at the check list?! My wife reminds me, another reason why it is essential to have a sailing wife.

 

[dukes4monny]

I close mine--a lever operated valve under the berth in the aft cabin.
What I do is have the ignition key on a piece of string which loops under the closed lever. You need the key to start the engine and you can't get to it unless you open the lever valve on the stopcock--a good way of preventing the engine being started with the sea cock being closed.

An eminently sensible idea......I like that

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I only close the heads inlet and outlet and only do that because there is a risk of syphoning (heads below waterline) To back up some of the comments about trouble closing seacocks:

On a previous boat I used to close all seacocks, however when I sold it and the new owner came to take it away he had forgotten what I had told him, didn't check, started the engine which promptly started to overheat setting off the alarm, he then could not remember that the engine stopped simply by switching off the ignition key his previous boat had a decompression lever. So in blind panic (I am told) he ripped the fuel pipes of the injectors and pump to stop the engine. He was lucky the only damage to the engine was the impellor and I had a set of fuel pipes as spares. Which I told him about when he rang me up to berrate me for leaving the seacocks closed

 

[PetiteFleur]

On my current boat I leave the engine seacock open as on my previous boat I was in a hurry to catch the tide and forgot to turn on the seacock - suddenly remembered when I noticed the engine note was louder than usual - you CAN fit a new impellor in under a minute if you have a Speedseal and being pushed ashore by the tide!
Toilet seacocks are closed when leaving the boat but left on when aboard(new seacocks this year as one you couldn't move and the handle snapped off the other)
Cockpit seacocks are left open as they are in the depths of the lockers and would take ages to get all the geaqr out! Sink & basin seacocks left open.

 

[trapezeartist]

What I do is have the ignition key on a piece of string which loops under the closed lever. You need the key to start the engine and you can't get to it unless you open the lever valve on the stopcock--a good way of preventing the engine being started with the sea cock being closed.

We don't have an ignition key, so we hang the engine battery masterswitch key on the sea cock lever. And I always look over the side for water immediately after starting the engine.

I appreciate that the risks are low, but it still seems foolish to leave the boat unattended with just a bit of plastic pipe keeping the sea out. We close the underwater sea cocks (engine in, heads in, heads out) every time we leave the boat. The through hulls that are above the waterline stay open.

When we first bought the boat all sea cocks were left open and we found the heads out to be very nearly seized. I really didn't want to be dismantling it if at all possible as it is difficult to access and any spillage would go into an even more inaccessible part of the bilge. Judicious spraying with WD40 up the spout from outside the hull, plus working to and fro with an extended handle just about got her working properly. The routine regime of opening and closing each time we are aboard has freed her up a treat.

 

[Kelpie]

We keep the ignition key on a a clip on the raw water intake seacock, which remains closed until the key is needed.
I replaced all my seacocks this year, between tides. I removed the heads in preparation for replacing the outlet valve on the next tide, and was horrified to find a steady trickle of water coming in through the shut valve. For god knows how many years, the only thing keeping the boat afloat had been the toilet's plumbing itself. Made me quite glad I was replacing them.