To buy, or not to buy

[Adzz]

Hi,
I am looking for some guidance please. After looking at various boats, i have decided on either a Catalina or Hunter. I have looked on various websites, and in magazines, to get an average price (by year/condition/inventory).

The main query i have is the website www.boats.com, This has shown a significant difference in price for British boats - compared to the same boats in America. Is the buying boats from America scenario a valid one - or is it a pipe dream destined to fail .....?

Any help or guidance would be gratefully received.

Adam

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[cliff]

For Catalina read Jaguar if in the U.K. and check <A target="_blank" HREF=http://pages.unisonfree.net/paul.absolon/main2.htm> Here </A> for Jaguar Owners Association.

Buying a boat stateside you have to look at where to keep it.

As your bio gives no info as to your location so ......?

If bringing to UK there could be problems with getting it here from US and VAT upon arrival and CE regulations.

There is no average price as the price will be determined by the condition / state of refitting / extras / who desperate the owner is to sell / broker or private / your negotiating skills.

Some boats are well fitted out with extras but have something else wrong, some are basic when it comes to extras but sound hull / engine / rigging. some are.... you get my meaning?.

Try some sites like <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.reesmarine.com/> This </A> and look for Jaguar or Hunter or search by size.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bedouin]

If you search the archive you will find a number of discussions about bring US boats into the EU. There appear to be a number of issues such as VAT and RCD compliance that add complication and cost to the process.

On top of that you have the difficulty of viewing a boat in the US - unless you are regularly in the US anyway. It is a sad fact that boats don't always live p to their description - and sales do fall through - so imagine what you would feel if you flew all the way to US just to discover that the boat you went to view was a pile of unseaworthy junk...

...then you've got the problem of getting it back across the pond which could be an expensive business.

All in all it may be possible to save some money at the higher end of the market but there are a lot of issues involved

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Benbow]

Also be aware that British Hunter is an entirely different boat to the US Hunter. I believe that American Hunters are sold in the UK as the hunter legend and I wouldn't go out of sight of land in one, but they are probably great in a marina.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

US vs UK

Hunter Legends are built in Portland UK now and are a different boat to the US one ..... (they asy not - but Shoossssh !!!)
Catalina - basically the Jaguar range out of this in UK ..... but now the US Catalina has grown up !!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Guest]

Hunter and Hunter ....

There are two Hunters in UK - BUILT in UK ....

Hunter Legend based on the US Legend series - but built in Portland to N.Europe specs.

Hunter Boats - famous for its kit boats ...... designed / moulded in UK specifically for N.Europe market.

The US Legend is still available via some outlets - but is a different ball-game ...... IMHO designed for US Intra-costal waterways and not a strong sea-going job. But again that is my PERSONAL opinion ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Adzz]

So i take it that an American Hunter would not be viable for the British waters ?


(Also BIO updated - thanx)

<hr width=100% size=1>I LUV WORK - I could sit and watch it ALL day .....

 

[john_morris_uk]

What I believe people mean (always a very dangerous thing to assume!) is that the Hunter Legend boats are not designed (or perhaps optimised) for passage making offshore - unless the conditions are benign. Even in the English Channel it is easy for a 12 hour passage to turn into a 36 hour or more passage and berths suitable for oof watch crew to sleep in in even mildly rough seas are very desirable assets. The Hunter Legend boats sell very well because they are very attractive and roomy boats to live on in Marinas. If that is what the buyer wants, they will sell.

You choose what you want.

If you don't know, cadge a few sails on a few boats in uk waters first!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[AlexL]

Howdy
If this is your first boat and you are new to sailing (as we were 2 years ago) then I would buy something that is suitable for what you want to do now - if you have dreams of blue water sailing or serious offshore passage making in 5 years time, fine but buy a different boat in 5 years to do that.
Whatever you buy as a first boat, you will probably want to replace it within a few years as you will learn an awful lot within the first few years sailing your own boat and really crystalize your ideas of what features are / are not important on a boat, but you can't really learn that without owning a boat first - kind of catch 22.
Finally pay no attention to the doomsayers who tell you that you need a 20 ton, long keeled, british built ocean going yacht and everthing else is lightweight foreign rubbish - do your own research, look at the figures and decide for yourself.
In light of all this I would buy in the UK - so you can look at a lot of boats without travelling halfway accross the world - as has already been alluded to alot of them will not quite match the glowing descriptions in the advert! Also the whole question of CE marking, VAT and shipping is a world of hurt and unless you are getting an unbelievable deal on a 1/4 million pound yacht - you are unlikely to save much.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[robp]

Re: Hunter and Hunter ....

Catalinas however, are decent offshore boats. I have seen several reviews in the past, describing them as Blue Water cruisers. I had a 36 MKII and was very pleased with it, albeit that the saloon and cockpit were typically rather large. Certainly no lightweight though and crammed with serious gear. This is the American built range and not the Jaguars. They are available here from someone like Portway. (Not absolutely sure who though).

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[flaming]

As someone who has sailed a Legend 336 for 6 years in a cruising area spanning North Holland to La Rochelle and just about everywhere in between, at times in some pretty nasty weather I can testify that the hunter Legends certainly can stand normal UK and north European coastal use. As to their bias towards Marina living I believe that they are in fact no different from the equivalent JENBENBAV in this respect. Especially the slightly older ones.

Having said that I wouldn't buy a new one now. The designs have certainly moved away from the decent sailing boats that were being produced (e.g the 336) towards a far more slow cruisy slant. Also that arch they've now got is hideous.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[sundance]

Absolute billhooks! You are typicical of the clueless hogwashers and weightwatchers that still roam this forum ranting on about weight equals stability. We have a Hunter (Legend) 326 which we have sailed through some of the most nototious waters in the Med, ie. the gulf de lion. the bouches de Rhone, cap corse etc. We have made many offshore passages in the boat. It has behaved magnificently and its stability is the most reassuring we have experienced on the five crusiers we have owned!
Before the Hunter, we had a Moody 346 which we got rid of as soon as possible. It was heavy, sluggish, unstable and apt to be dangerous in a sea. At one point it nearly put us on the rocks due to its inability to tack well in a small sea and get some speed up. Technology has taken over from weight. Weight is 'old hat'! Our Hunter 326 tacks like a dream, has her skirts up in seconds, and is away as steady as a rock.
Get with it, man - times have changed - ask any ocean racer!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jules]

HEAR, HEAR. Some of the most opinionated people have obviously never tried what they knock.
Hunter Legend 310. I like the new arch, BTW.
Provides a good handhold in a seaway, and a rope and traveller free cockpit for kids.
(oh, sorry, they're not meant to go to sea. Don't tell GJW I've got one, or that we sailed her back from Chichester to home in N Ireland in March in an average F5)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dulcibella]

I've tried Legends and find that, off the wind in a decent blow (6+) even a deeply reefed main produces huge weather helm that completely overcomes the rudder and the inadequate headsail. This is further compounded by the fact that the no-backstay rig has very heavily swept spreaders that make it impossible to let the main out far enough. They go nicely enough to windward in moderate conditions, but I wouldn't contemplate an offshore trip in one. Even in hard wind any sensible offshore boat can be trimmed for neutral helm.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jules]

I agree with you. I find it best to drop the main entirely in strong wind abaft the beam. I thought about getting a third reef point, but reckoned there would be too much rope aloft (single line reefing) and didn't bother. May rig up something.
You may be making an unfair comparison if you sail a Rustler 36, however!
I'd rather be in yours crossing the Atlantic. (I'd prefer a 747 in either case).
Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[wren]

I know this is a long time later, but I now own a Legend 33 - after sailing in everything from high performance dinghies to offshore racers. Over the last 40 years I have owned a Moody, a Contest and a Countess, and can honestly say the Legend is the best boat of the bunch.
The big main/small jib combination means that my wife and I can enjoy sailing in light winds whereas before we had to wait until at least force 4 before the boats would move and then the seas were not much fun for my wife. Reefing is easy, so when the wind gets up we reef and keep the boat flat.
The traveller on the arch is great - most of the time the mainsheet is belayed and I play the traveller.
As a structural engineer I checked out the loads onto the boat from the rig and came to the conclusion that it transmits less in the way of forces to the hull than more conventional rigs, and it supports the mast beter.
I like the boat because you get what is says on the packet - it is a good boat for families, it will cope with bad weather, but who wants to go out in bad weather. Modern forcasting is such that most of the time I (and certainly my wife) only go on reasonable forcasts. We cross the channel regularly in comfort.
I am old enough to remember when the first French botas came to Britain when they were branded as too light and would never last - mainly because they were much cheaper than the English equivalents. They have lasted, and so will the Legends.