Tips & Tricks for buying a used boat?

[beancounter]

We'll shortly be taking our first faltering steps towards boat ownership (Yay!!). Can the seasoned veterans of Scuttlebutt provide any helpful hints about the process of examining prospective boats? Are there subtle signs of careful/careless ownership? (before any smart***e suggests it, I'm not thinking of things like "Is the keel still attached"...). We'd certainly have a survey done on a final choice, but I'm thinking here of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

cheers

John

<hr width=100% size=1>Fabricati Diem, punc

 

[Evadne]

Hi,
based on a friend's recent experience I would recommend the RYA pro forma contract (I believe it's available on their website). It safeguarded him when the seller wanted to pull out because the survey came up with lots of expensive faults, because among other things it holds the seller to refunding the cost of the survey in that case.

When I was looking for a boat, I used to use the density of spider population as a guide to how long she'd been out of the water, it's more reliable than the cockpit moss index. Other than that it's just a matter of actually looking at each component and thinking is it new, well used or worn out and why? Are there any cracks, or new-looking patches anywhere? Also if the battery's flat and the engine won't start, assume the worst.

Good luck!

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[jimi]

Take a seasoned boat owner with you when you visit.

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[dralex]

I'm hardly a seasoned veteran, but:

Top to tail the boat and inspect everything- it's amazing what can be missed. Also- check the condition of the big expensive things like sails, rigging and engine- you don't want to be replacing things in the first year or two as there's enough expense just on incidental things. Tattered running rigging is easily replaced, but may be a sign of general lack of attention. Ask for service receipts for the engine if possible. Go for a test sail if at all possible, then check that everyting works. If it doesn't get an estimate for repair.

If all that is good, then spend your money on a good surveyer.

Good luck

Alex

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by dralex on 11/10/2004 15:15 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[chuns]

Everybody has their own standards, and have their own list of priorities. For example a boat that looks a bit unkempt may have an engine in perfect mechanical order. But the general rule applies in most cases – a boat that looks as if it hasn’t been cared for probably hasn’t.

The point you have identified so well is “How do you (as a new boat owner) spot the things that ‘seasoned’ owners might register immediately?”

My view is that the answer lies in the detail. Assuming the boat has been around for a while, I would look at the splices on any laid rope. Have some of the strands come un-laid, or are the ends un-whipped or heat-sealed?

Have a look in the heads, and if there is one, the fridge. They will tell their own story. Are there some light rust stains on the stainless that would have come off with a bit of oxalic? If the owner doesn’t want to present his boat in the best light, then there might be an underlying issue.

Externally look for chips where winch handles may have clouted the grp. It happens to us all, but repairs are easy. Have a look at the rubbing strake, unrepaired gouges are a clue, as are things like trakmark lifting at the edges, badly chipped and flaking varnish.

Look at the bilges – disgusting, or have they had attention? Any leaks around windows? Does the boat smell? Is there green algae on the deck, or control lines? Is the anode up to its task? Look at the engine – rusting lump, or has remedial paint been applied? Check behind the instrument panel or whatever – is it a mess or tidy.

Another give away is how electronics and stuff have been added. Are they just screwed on, hanging from any available surface with wires trailing anywhere, or has some thought been given to siting them in a tidy way. Are there screw holes from stuff that has been removed?

I’m sure others will come up with a lot more than these, my first thoughts, and any surveyor will be much more definitive, but from the point of view of sorting wheat and chaff, go on first impressions. Some people look for the chaff in order to get a cheap boat to do up, but I think you may be in the wheat market.

The best advice has already been given, take somebody with you.

Good luck!


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[Sea Devil]

I think its useful to have decided on exactly what it is that you want and can afford then only look at one sort -

When I purchased my Elizabethen 31 there were 4 or 5 on the market - I saw them all - some twice and for that moment in time nobody knew more about E31s than me.

Engines should run without smoke - sails should be tough enough to withstand a very hard push of the thumb or finger - the hull should not be too bashed about - the rest is detail - if a winch does not turn for example its a great reason for bargining the price down and it will probably take you half an hour to service it ---etc etc -

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[graham]

A lot depends on how much you intend to spend and how much money that leaves you to sort out problems.

Take for an example a 30 foot boat on the market for 25 k.
Initially it may look very nice but closer inspection and questions reveal that

1 Standing rigging is 20 years old replacement approx £1000

2 Engine original .Smokes a little may need replacing inside 3 years. Cost approx £8000

3 Sails ok but getting on a bit cost approx £1500

4 Upholstery a bit tired cost approx £1000

Im not trying to be a gloom merchant but the point I am making is that within a few years you would need to spend another 50 percent of the initial purchase cost just to keep it up to scratch but without actually upgrading anything.

Therefore unless you are looking at almost new boats then the things to look for are have major items been renewed at any stage .I think it best to go for a boat which has had the major items replaced within the last 5 or 10 years and pay a little bit more initially but much less in the next few years.

Best of luck with the boat hunt.

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[Althorne]

In a way I have to agree with Grahams assessment of how to work out what you should spend (depending on the original asking price). When we went looking to upgrade to a bigger boat a friend said "take the bull by the horns and only offer half the asking price to start with". We actually tried this and finalised on less than two thirds, so don't be afraid to be cheeky. It saved us thousands which are now being spent making our boat almost like new with all new equipment. The very best of luck.

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[FlyingSpud]

Just a little trick, obvious in its way, but always fill a bucket up with water, close all the hatches and then throw water over them, this way you find out if they leak, something a test sail in benign conditions does not always show up.

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[Twister_Ken]

What's a seasoned boat?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Aeolus_IV]

What\'s a seasoned boat?

One that carries salt and pepper of course...

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Seriously, when I was looking at boats I tried to do two things when looking at the boat. Firstly look at the boat and try to see what she could be like and ask myself "is this what I want?". Secondly, I mentally removed those rose tinted specs and look long and slowly at everything. If I didn't understand something (why that scratch/dent/crack/stain? etc) at first I'd try and work it out, what was the cause? Finally the difference between the two is how much work there is in the boat before you'll be happy.

A good survey is necessary - but to be honest in my limited experience they will not tell you if the engine is a dud or not. Nor will they say anything useful about the mast and rigging if it is standing, even if unstepped its hard to get useful assessment of a mast (after all it's likely to be corroding from the inside).

My hard earnt advice - decide how much time you have to do repairs/work on the boat - do you have the necessary skills, if not, do you know firends who do? Will/Can they help you? If not you'll be paying a profession to do all manner of jobs - and these guys are not cheap, nore sadly do they always do a better job than you might be capable of.

The list of repairs and cost posted earlier seems fair to me - I know, I've been there. So far on Aeolus - the cost of repairs, replacements and upgrades has exceeded the inital purcahse cost. Fortunately I walked into this one know that this was likely to be the case .. even so, it still stings...

Mind you, there is a certain pride in sorting out the problems and finally ending up with what you "saw" in step one.

All IMHO, of course..

Regards, Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>

 

[Stemar]

IMHO, The right boat will wink at you and say buy me. Unfortunately, so will a tired old harlot, so take a mate with you, in the hope that he can drag you back to reality if you fall head over heels for the latter. There really are plenty more fish (boats?) in the sea.

It's a bit like a marriage - don't go for the boat that ticks all the boxes, but doesn't inspire you. You'll be happier with the one that has a few faults, but just clicks somehow. Just make sure you go into it with your eyes open, and both head and heart say yes.

Good luck!

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[Joe_Cole]

You're right! In my (limited) experience you'll know when you see the right boat. The only other thing I'ld say is that if you feel you can't trust the vendor, just walk away. Don't try and convince yourself that the boat is OK despite your reservations about the vendor. Just walk....quickly!

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[Stemar]

Re: Just walk....quickly!

Absolutely agree.

I've only bought one boat, but I run old cars to be able to "afford" the boating habit, and when I'm buying, I look as much at the vendor as what I'm buying. If I think I can trust the vendor, then I can trust the car/boat. Of course, I'll still go over it as carefully as I can, but if I think the vendor's a rogue, then thanks but no thanks.

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[capt_courageous]

Re: Just walk....quickly!

I guess it depends on how much money you have to spend. I would look at the the standards. Westerly, Sadler, Hurley and Contessa among the older types. Bear in mind that a new engine can cost many £grand. In our area the most important thing about a boat is the cost of mooring it.

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[beancounter]

Thanks to all for the contributions - as ever, Scuttlebutters are a mine of info.
Our game plan is to visit the used boat show at Levington next week, to crawl over as many boats as possible that are in and around our size/budget parameters, simply to get an idea of things we like/don't like about layouts, features etc. Boat hunting in earnest will probably start after christmas, and it's at this stage of the process that I'm sure the tips on what to look for will come into there own. (Thanks Chuns & others)
Involving a seasoned (or should that be pickled?) boatowner would, I think, come into play at the stage of having a few possible contenders ( thanks Jimi & others).
Of course, it's possible that The Boat may wink at us next week, but I'm sure we will be hard hearted and turn away.....er...I think.
thanks
John

<hr width=100% size=1>Fabricati Diem, punc

 

[Birdseye]

The best bit of advice is to forget your cheque book. Its easy to get "buying fever", and to rush into things. There are lots of boats for sale out there, so take your time and look at lots of them. The used boats shows are a problem since they are organised to fulfill your whim there and then. Act in haste, repent at leisure!

Then be realistic. You are buying a used boat - dont expect it to be like new. It will be part worn which is why its cheaper. Take good note of the inventory - we have twice fallen for an immaculate boat with an ex manufacturer level of inventory, and the cost of adding radars etc is high. But on the other hand, used boat prices do not much reflect the inventory.

Look at the basics. In a days crawling over the boat you will find things that the surveyor will miss. Having said that I have never had the courage to do without a survey. Dont worry too much about cosmetics - lots of green mould put buyers off , reduce the price, yet its easy to cure. So a boat that is superficially neglected can be a bargain.

Contrary to some of the scare stories above, things like re-rigging are easy to do yourself as is re-engining. An engine can be replaced for £2k for a 20hp jobbie on a diy basis, and can be re-bored usually for a lot less. Get quotes from non marine companies if you are worried.

Last tip - buy on the East coast or the West coast. Prices are lower further away from the Hamble, and there are lots of clubs where boats are for sale rather than brokers charging 10%. If you buy at a club, you can usually get an idea of the state of the boat from other members.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.