Capt. Clueless
Well-Known Member
And that to me sounds a very good idea, so nobody can just suddenly wake up one morning and decide to do boat surveys.
Tips on selling your boat - from a buyer
- Thread starter Sarubuta
- Start date
And that to me sounds a very good idea, so nobody can just suddenly wake up one morning and decide to do boat surveys.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
(attributed to Einstein)
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
And common sense followed through to its logical conclusions can lead to counter-intuitive results - like relativity and quantum mechanics!
Trundlebug
Well-Known Member
It's easy to generalise about what the vendor should do to sell the boat more easily / at a better price.
And I don't disagree with many of the points made by the OP.
But the fact is there are multiple reasons why people sell boats, and they have to be taken into account when buying. It's easy, and obvious to say a boat should be clean and well presented. But when the vendor is selling because he is unable to clean it regularly any more, either through his own health or other family / time reasons then a sensible buyer should see through that and not be shallow enough to reject a boat because it didn't look like the ones in a boat show.
I blame the multitude of TV property programmes for artifically raising buyer expectations to unachievable levels for this buyer inability to see beyond the current owner's stuff at the size and shape of the room space and storage beneath.
I'm not saying don't tidy up, or indeed do all you reasonably can, but be realistic.
When we bought our boat it had full documentation (the most comprehensive the surveyor had ever seen)
and had been diligently maintained mechanically. But it was filthy, such that it took a full weekend and the following bank holiday weekend for 3 people to clean it from top to bottom after we purchased it. That didn't cost much at all, and made a huge difference to the appearance. But it seems that would have deterred many potential buyers.
The vendor was selling because his wife had alzheimer's and he was effectively sailing single handed. he was worried in case anything happened to him; she would have been helpless and probably so would he. But the level of care she needed meant he didn't have time to clean the boat regularly. But everything on the boat worked.
And I don't disagree with many of the points made by the OP.
But the fact is there are multiple reasons why people sell boats, and they have to be taken into account when buying. It's easy, and obvious to say a boat should be clean and well presented. But when the vendor is selling because he is unable to clean it regularly any more, either through his own health or other family / time reasons then a sensible buyer should see through that and not be shallow enough to reject a boat because it didn't look like the ones in a boat show.
I blame the multitude of TV property programmes for artifically raising buyer expectations to unachievable levels for this buyer inability to see beyond the current owner's stuff at the size and shape of the room space and storage beneath.
I'm not saying don't tidy up, or indeed do all you reasonably can, but be realistic.
When we bought our boat it had full documentation (the most comprehensive the surveyor had ever seen)
and had been diligently maintained mechanically. But it was filthy, such that it took a full weekend and the following bank holiday weekend for 3 people to clean it from top to bottom after we purchased it. That didn't cost much at all, and made a huge difference to the appearance. But it seems that would have deterred many potential buyers.
The vendor was selling because his wife had alzheimer's and he was effectively sailing single handed. he was worried in case anything happened to him; she would have been helpless and probably so would he. But the level of care she needed meant he didn't have time to clean the boat regularly. But everything on the boat worked.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
"Widow's boats" are probably quite common and no doubt represent good value. I know someone who did well out of buying one. On the other hand, there are inexplicable cases of neglect. In our marina there was a scruffy Centaur that the owner never sailed but used as a cottage. It looked like something you would find abandoned behind a hedge but what was odder was that he bought a second, larger, boat and kept it in the adjacent berth, paying for two. Within two or three years it looked like the neglected Centaur and the glass and running rigging were thick with green and mould. The last time I saw it it was being pressure-washed by some pros prior to selling, but I still don't understand.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That's how I bought my Longboat. She was in a hell of a state when I got her, having being abandoned in a yard for five years, but I had faith in the quality of construction, and a couple of days' hard work got her sparkling again.
I paid ... well, let's just say that what was supposed to be a very low starting point for negotiation was, to my surprise, accepted.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Most often the owner sails the boat and the surveyor observes, but it can be otherwise. Often several hours, at least 30 minutes of which is spent warming up the engines and confirming they do not overheat, that normal speeds are reached, and that there are no unusual vibrations. Important stuff.
After the survey is accepted, you close on the boat. If the survey were on dry land, how would you know it even runs and that the shaft isn't misaligned?
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
This is what sea trials are for.
It the time to renegotiate the price, or for the seller to put right the faults.
Personally a misaligned shaft or even an engine which isn't running well because of injection problem or a over heating problem would put me off a boat which in other ways is fine.
To me it's a lot worst to pay good money to have a boat hauled out to find the keel hanging off , or its badly damaged under the water line,
Last edited:
thinwater
Well-Known Member
We were talking about sea trials, starting with post 17.
The price is negotiated when the contract is signed. The only farther negotiations are for actual defects discovered during the survey, not including common conditions of age that were reasonable obvious before the survey. I think that is what you meant, but some people feel like they can negotiate every negative, including those that are simply age related that were reasonable visible.
Rafiki
Well-Known Member
Debates about how much a boat sells for, low offers, etc always seem to assume that a boat is an asset and must be worth something, even if that is only a few hundreds or thousands. However although a boat is an asset on one sense it is also a liability if you have to pay marina or land storage fees. Therefore there is no logically reason why an owner of a small boat stored at a marina /boatyard wouldn't "pay someone to take it away". So for your next project boat just say, you pay me one year's storage fees and I will take the boat and you will never have to pay another penny -- deal done !
thinwater
Well-Known Member
You seldom hear it put that way, but you are dead on.
The problem is two fold. The person does not yet recognize how much disposal will cost, and one year's storage may not be enough to take on someone else's problem.
BotleyBuoy
Well-Known Member
To add to what was originally posted, my tips to sellers are (i) Be totally honest about your boat and provide a frank assessment of its condition. (ii) Use current photos, not those from 5 or more years earlier (iii) Understand that it can cost a prospective buyer a significant amount of time and money to view your boat (iv) Try to accept that your boat was a hobby not an investment, you wouldn’t expect to sell your old golf clubs for more than you paid for them would you?
A boat that may have been worth £15k ten years ago may be worth only a third of that now regardless of how much the owner has spent on it in the meantime. I’ve been talking about this with some boating mates and we thought that it may be a generational thing.
Fifteen to ten years ago there may have been lots of newly retiring people looking for a small boat and it was a sellers’ market. Those owners are now in their 70’s and looking to get out of boating but times have changed and the younger generation aren’t interested in boating and all that goes with it. After all, it is much easier to rent a boat when one wants to and avoid all the expensive overheads. I’m 62 and I’d suggest that my generation is the last which may be willing to take on a small boat, but in much smaller numbers than the previous generation.
If you want to sell your boat then the bottom line is; it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
I went to look at a Colvic 20 yesterday and left feeling thoroughly fed up with the whole boat buying process. The boat was advertised for £4,250 but:-
All rubbing strakes were rotten.
Gell coat (where it could be seen through the dirt/mould) cracked and crazed.
Canopy covered in mould.
Window channels blocked with very healthy looking moss.
Deck boards swollen and couldn’t be lifted to inspect the bilge.
Lots of pumping failed to clear the water out of the bilge. (Outboard powered!).
Outboard couldn’t be started because the oil alarm was sounding.
Interior very damp and lots of condensation.
A complete waste of time slogging round the M25 and burning lots of petrol.
I’d like to see a nicely fitted out Colvic Northerner if anyone has one.
A boat that may have been worth £15k ten years ago may be worth only a third of that now regardless of how much the owner has spent on it in the meantime. I’ve been talking about this with some boating mates and we thought that it may be a generational thing.
Fifteen to ten years ago there may have been lots of newly retiring people looking for a small boat and it was a sellers’ market. Those owners are now in their 70’s and looking to get out of boating but times have changed and the younger generation aren’t interested in boating and all that goes with it. After all, it is much easier to rent a boat when one wants to and avoid all the expensive overheads. I’m 62 and I’d suggest that my generation is the last which may be willing to take on a small boat, but in much smaller numbers than the previous generation.
If you want to sell your boat then the bottom line is; it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
I went to look at a Colvic 20 yesterday and left feeling thoroughly fed up with the whole boat buying process. The boat was advertised for £4,250 but:-
All rubbing strakes were rotten.
Gell coat (where it could be seen through the dirt/mould) cracked and crazed.
Canopy covered in mould.
Window channels blocked with very healthy looking moss.
Deck boards swollen and couldn’t be lifted to inspect the bilge.
Lots of pumping failed to clear the water out of the bilge. (Outboard powered!).
Outboard couldn’t be started because the oil alarm was sounding.
Interior very damp and lots of condensation.
A complete waste of time slogging round the M25 and burning lots of petrol.
I’d like to see a nicely fitted out Colvic Northerner if anyone has one.
steve yates
Well-Known Member
Absolutely spot on, below an arbitrary price point.
It's still an asset if you own it outright, and can sell it for more than it costs you to keep it.
BotleyBuoy
Well-Known Member
'IF' you can sell it, and that's a very big 'IF'. As soon as the boat is worth less than the annually increasing overheads of mooring/storage/maintenance/BSC/licence etc it is a liability. Maybe that's why so many owners are placing such an unrealistic value on their boat; because it's a way of avoiding facing up to reality.
If I do ever buy a boat it will be with the acceptance that it will be a liability from day one and with the assumption that one day I will probably have to have to pay someone to take it off my hands.
Also it's not what one might call a "liquid asset". (Small pun intended).
fisherman
Well-Known Member
We were stuck with the boat being unseaworthy and so big as to need specialist transport. Bit different if someone can get it trailered away and put in the garden.
Capt. Clueless
Well-Known Member
You should have said "Yes, is there any movement on the asking price of £425 pounds"?
BotleyBuoy
Well-Known Member
You should have said "Yes, is there any movement on the asking price of £425 pounds"?
As above; it was worth what I was prepared to pay for it ie bugger all. I did think of a use for it though. If the deck was cut off the hull could be put in the ground and used to keep fish. Assuming you could find the leak!
At least you had the option of taking it out to sea and pulling the plug
fisherman
Well-Known Member
As above; it was worth what I was prepared to pay for it ie bugger all. I did think of a use for it though. If the deck was cut off the hull could be put in the ground and used to keep fish. Assuming you could find the leak!
At least you had the option of taking it out to sea and pulling the plug
It crossed my mind. It is now in the hands of a soon to be retired engineer, who has little fear of engine recommissioning needs and stuff that can be fixed, basically. The hull is fine, just all the interior, deck lifting, mast delaminated which meant it couldn't be sailed away.
Irish Rover
Well-Known Member
What would peoples general experience be with buying and reselling in terms of loss of value.? I bought in 2010 for €37.5K which I thought was a bargain at the time and sold it last week for €34K [I advertised it at €39K but I was determined to sell asap rather than hang on for a price that might never materialise] . I have no idea how much I spent in the intervening period but there was no major upgrade just added a chart plotter and VHF and general maintenance. The boat I just bought cost €90K and the previous Bill of Sale from 2007 shows €130K and I know he added a fair few extras. It is in pristine condition and the surveyor struggled to find something to comment negatively on. The engines though well maintained have high hours.
BotleyBuoy
Well-Known Member
9% deprecation over seven years seems pretty good to me. If you had bought a second hand luxury car seven years ago the depreciation would have been significantly more than that.
In the context of the asset/liability debate above I see no reason why the rules applying to any other second hand luxury commodity shouldn’t apply to boats as well. There may be exceptions eg the boat equivalent of say a limited edition vintage Rolex, but outside of the vintage/collectable/desirable bracket boats are just another commodity, albeit with a hefty overheads, so the same rules of the market should apply. Shouldn’t they?
It may be that the people who buy boats at the higher end of the market aren’t concerned with this “rule”. But for ordinary guys on limited incomes, and by definition then those looking at smaller and older boats, the basic rules of the market most definitely apply. It appears though that the lead just doesn’t seem to have touched bottom with the owners.
In the context of the asset/liability debate above I see no reason why the rules applying to any other second hand luxury commodity shouldn’t apply to boats as well. There may be exceptions eg the boat equivalent of say a limited edition vintage Rolex, but outside of the vintage/collectable/desirable bracket boats are just another commodity, albeit with a hefty overheads, so the same rules of the market should apply. Shouldn’t they?
It may be that the people who buy boats at the higher end of the market aren’t concerned with this “rule”. But for ordinary guys on limited incomes, and by definition then those looking at smaller and older boats, the basic rules of the market most definitely apply. It appears though that the lead just doesn’t seem to have touched bottom with the owners.