Tips for good varnishing

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derekgillard

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The wash boards are now all ready for varnish.

Somehow I never get the perfect result, so any tips would be appreciated. Do you use brush or roller and how long before additional coats.

Thanks in advance

Delbuoy.
 
Mine never really were that good until coated with West Epoxy, and a few coats of varnish on top. Much better finish now, and less maintenance. Would recommend it.
 
Sand with increasingly fine paper; I go down to 320grit on KS's spars. Then get rid of *all* dust - sweep, brush, and finally wipe with thinners on a clean rag. You also need to make sure the air isn't full of dust ready to settle on your work - ideally you'd do the sanding and the varnishing in different places. Then just brush it on; obviously quality of varnish makes a difference - I'm in the Epifanes camp.

If starting from bare wood rather than existing varnish, you need to follow the advice on the tin about starting with greatly thinned coats that will soak into the wood; Epifanes calls for three or four (can't remember) of increasing strength before you get to use it neat. Also with bare wood, you need an extra step in the dust-removal process - tack cloths. I buy the ones by Oakey, and they pull dust out of the grain of the wood long after you'd swear it was clean. I used the tack cloth on the wooden trim in my saloon, and didn't on the table because I was in a rush to get it finished before a cruise and had run out of cloths. Both are oiled sapele, but they look completely different - the table is dull where the trim is polished and shiny.

Storing your brush in a cup of thinners between coats saves cleaning it (wipe off most of the varnish before putting it in, and most of the thinners after taking it out) and avoids the possibility of flecks of dried varnish getting into the work.

Pete
 
IMHO varnish is much of a muchness. Tack rags are good. One coat of 50 50 then go straight on with the full coats. As long as you pay more than a fiver for a decent brush, use long strokes and don't try to correct mistakes, you'll only make it worse. Sort it in the next coat.

One good tip. Tung oil. Epifanes sell it at a massive profit as easy flow and that's what it does.

Finally, don't be scared. It's not as hard as everyone likes to pretend.
 
After putting all the hard work into original varnishing, touch up time arrives. You open your part used tin of varnish and there's a skin on top. Use this varnish and there are guaranteed to be bits of congealed varnish coming out on the brush. Anyone got any advice on preserving a part used can of varnish?
 
alahol2 said:
After putting all the hard work into original varnishing, touch up time arrives. You open your part used tin of varnish and there's a skin on top. Use this varnish and there are guaranteed to be bits of congealed varnish coming out on the brush. Anyone got any advice on preserving a part used can of varnish?
Click to expand...

I've heard the idea of storing the tin upside down. Never tried it though - my spring routine on KS neatly used a litre and a half of varnish each time, so I'd buy a big and a small tin and use it all, then buy fresh next year.

Pete
 
alahol2 said:
After putting all the hard work into original varnishing, touch up time arrives. You open your part used tin of varnish and there's a skin on top. Use this varnish and there are guaranteed to be bits of congealed varnish coming out on the brush. Anyone got any advice on preserving a part used can of varnish?
Click to expand...

Before closing the tin, give it a blast with a hot air gun then slap the lid on. This should bring more solvents out of the varnish and displace the air which should stop it forming a skin. Alternatively I it's too late you can get varnish filters from almost anywhere that will sell you varnish. Simply strain it through one when decanting and it should remove the debris.
 
Delving into the memory banks - from my yacht painter foreman, who tried to teach me more than I ever learned :-

( in a strong Sussex accent )

" Rub each coat down as if it were the first and put each coat on as if it were the last.

Never varnish after 4.00pm - even in summer.

Always use a new tin for the last coat "

There was loads more but it's gone ...........

Good luck
 
I agree that varnishing is not rocket sicence. I had never even painted anything 3 years ago now people admire my varnish.

You never get a "perfect" finish because you are dealing with a natrual product and wood itself is not perfect. If you want a totally uniform finish use plastic. Also, as you will be adding a couple of coats each year, dont stress about how one particular coat goes (unless it blooms) as you will be doing it again in a couple of months.

Nice varnish takes time. Dont rush. I usually do the first 50/50 75/50 then three coats, then leave it for a a couple of months, then do another two, and so on. This lets the varnish really dry and harden.

The "sanding" really is nothing more than wiping over with a high grit sandpaper until you have a white suface. I use a green pad that the chandlers sell, it looks like a washing up sponge. It does the job and is soft on the hands, so feels nice to use.

Cleaning up after each sand is really important. For example it takes me about an hour to sand my locker tops, two hours to clean them off (first white spirit, then a good tack cloth) and about half an hour to varnish them.
 
PhillM said:
No no no no no, (sorry)

See this thread:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?350110-Wooden-Tiller-Weather-Protection
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I can't see why not. International Woodskin is very popular, just Google it, extensivley used and was once called something else. It was also suggested in the thread you link to. You don't need to fart about thinning it down, just give it 4-5 coats and jobs a goodun with no bubbles etc. Epifanes do a similar product with oil I think in the mix, maybe the one you refer to - good stuff also i should think.

A teak oil or similar is a lot less maintenance but some go black and some are sticky attracting all the dirt. Deks Olje is popular.

If you have Oroko it's best just left, if you have teak i would use an oil,most other woods I would varnish with an oil based varnish such as International Woodskin or the Equivalent in Epifanes. Oridinary varnish is a PITA to use, thinning it, bubbles, drips, peeling etc I would never go back to it!
 
alahol2 said:
After putting all the hard work into original varnishing, touch up time arrives. You open your part used tin of varnish and there's a skin on top. Use this varnish and there are guaranteed to be bits of congealed varnish coming out on the brush. Anyone got any advice on preserving a part used can of varnish?
Click to expand...

I always dribble a dash of thinners on the top before it goes back on the shelf. But storing upside down is another accepted way of preserving the tin, just dont stir too well!
This subject seems to come around every few weeks, both Varnish and the sort of finishes like International woodskin etc and even the oils (generally eek!) have their champions.
Varnish is brittle, if you bash it around (like on wash boards?) then it will crack and when water gets under it, it generally fails. The other finishes are more flexible and resist the above a little more robustly, for what its worth.
 
davidfox said:
Varnish is brittle, if you bash it around (like on wash boards?) then it will crack and when water gets under it, it generally fails. The other finishes are more flexible and resist the above a little more robustly, for what its worth.
Click to expand...
Exactly, as others said above for oil varnishes prepare the wood below oiling it so it's not taking water. Oil may be thinned for this, use hardening oils - tung is better preserving against rot but beside this linseed as good; not "teak oils" as those are often non-hardening kind.

Varnish skinned over - pierce the hole in it or such, carefully, and drain into clean container, without stirring up the sludge from bottom should there be some.
Put some of Your Lady old nylon stockings on the can and drain through it - filtered :)
 
davidfox said:
Varnish is brittle, if you bash it around (like on wash boards?) then it will crack and when water gets under it, it generally fails. The other finishes are more flexible and resist the above a little more robustly, for what its worth.
Click to expand...

This is the advantage with oil based varnish, it doesn't crack, scrape off easily when you try and hurt it, it kind of remains "chewy". As a trailer sailor my Drascombe mast/spars get laid down on stoney/tarmac roads, tied to the trailer and boat and have withstood the bashing, my metal goose neck didn't effect it either...

The only snag maybe that unlike ordinary varnish which is relatively easy to scrape or sand off as it's brittle the oil based varnishes maybe tricker blocking up your sander or resisting a scraper. According to a recent magazine article it said that International Woodskin recommend you wipe the wood down with detergent annually, rinse and apply one coat for those areas of more exposed. Not sure you need to do that, one of my spars has been outside for 12 months without any sings of wear. The point of the oil as an ingredient is to resist against cracking from UV rays...
 
Zagato said:
This is the advantage with oil based varnish, it doesn't crack, scrape off easily when you try and hurt it, it kind of remains "chewy". As a trailer sailor my Drascombe mast/spars get laid down on stoney/tarmac roads, tied to the trailer and boat and have withstood the bashing, my metal goose neck didn't effect it either...
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I think the trade-off is that these wood finishes are more robust, longer lasting, and easier to work with when you do have to re-do them. But they don't look as nice as real varnish. My uncle's Shrimper has this kind of finish on the spars - they look ok, but nothing like as nice as Kindred Spirit's with their couple of dozen coats of traditional varnish (mostly applied by previous owner, not me!). Crabbers use the stuff from new these days, and I always notice at the boat show that their demo boats' masts don't look like mine. But their new owners won't have to spend six days every spring wielding the sandpaper and varnishing kit either.

Depends where you fall on the "practical" vs "beautiful" scale - and I'm certainly not knocking those who see their boats as a tool for sailing rather than a piece of furniture to be tittivated :D

Pete
 
Yes I actually wanted to just go via the oiling route (not too bothered about the look) and the online supplier sold me Woodskin. I asked for an oil, he sold me an oil based varnish. I wasn't happy but thought sod it I'll give it a go and as you say varnish looks great and it's so easy to slap on compared to conventional varnishes, but it will need more work to maintain it. Horses for courses, I'd still probably just go down the just oil route especially on a Crabber 24 with a lot more wood to do, It's just all a lot easier to give it a wipe over with an oily rag once a year. I noticed a lot of the manufacturers use an oil rather than varnish. Teak oil or Deks Olje seem to be the favourites when I called around last year.
 
stephenh said:
Delving into the memory banks - from my yacht painter foreman, who tried to teach me more than I ever learned :-

( in a strong Sussex accent )

" Rub each coat down as if it were the first and put each coat on as if it were the last.

Never varnish after 4.00pm - even in summer.

Always use a new tin for the last coat "

There was loads more but it's gone ...........

Good luck
Click to expand...
+1 to most of that, except that I tend only to start rubbing down after two or three coats. After that gentle wet and dry used wet between every coat. The cheapish soft two-tone synthetic bristle brushes are quite good, the all-black bristle no-loss ones are rubbish, and the very best are really good natural brushes.
 
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